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by pwarner 139 days ago
I'm not advocating their system, but here's one pro for China obviously.
7 comments

China doesn't have flip-flopping like this with its attendant massive waste. Instead it has endemic corruption which siphons off funds all over the place, perhaps with the exception of the big projects that command the full attention of central leadership.
> perhaps with the exception of the big projects that command the full attention of central leadership.

This is notably an area where the US is massively crippled. States can manage many year projects easier, but the federal government must conceal all such projects behind defense spending. Even that is wildly mismanaged (see: all the canceled naval purchases over the last two decades, and we still have an outdated, if large, navy)

> Instead it has endemic corruption which siphons off funds all over the place, perhaps with the exception of the big projects that command the full attention of central leadership.

We also have endemic corruption siphoning off funds all over the place, ESPECIALLY in the big projects that have the attention of the current administration.

From the business perspective, endemic corruption is preferable. Generally speaking, on societies like that, you know exactly how much you need to pay to which people to get things moving, so it can be budgeted for predictably.
One of the reasons why "democracy is the worst system of government, except for all the others".
There are countless examples of democracies with endemic corruption. Democracy is not a cure to it.
Its not a cure, but if offers ways in which to cure corruption and allows people to challenge it.
Yet somehow they've managed to eliminate extreme poverty and challenge the U.S. in GDP. Sounds like cope to me. They couldn't do that with extreme corruption like we tolerate in U.S. allies.
China is literally going through an "anticorruption" purge of the PLA right now. Zhang Youxia et al. The corruption in China has a very different shape than in the US.

(not sure what you mean by "corruption we tolerate in US allies"?)

Do you know who the U.S. allies with and funds? Every right wing dictator and criminal gang on the planet. We just don't like independent nations and left wing factions.

There is extreme corruption in the U.S. as well, but we've legalized it so it disappears in statistics.

Why not?
They "eliminated" extreme poverty caused by communist control in the first place, by going to a capitalist system.

There were tons of economic low-hanging fruits by building out large infrastructure projects, which corruption happily siphoned off of.

The ROI of these infra projects have been gone for a while, yet they continued. Also it's been stealing intellectual property, trade dumping, exporting deflation. Soaking up the manufacturing oxygen of everyone else through subsidies, elite capture, then using the leverage gained and veiled threats against others to force them to yield resources, market access and political control.

Emm... and what prevents the USA from doing all the same things?
Labour laws, for starters.

The conditions the average Chinese works in are abysmal, even from the American point of view.

Well, then you basically know what to do. Rescind those laws and become competitive again.
China benefited greatly from the US-led globalism order that's been going on since WWII.

Another way of saying it is China took the most advantage. And it has gone way overboard in taking advantage. So the backlash is expected and necessary.

Part of fixing things involve doing things that seem like it's destroying the order that the US created itself.

>They "eliminated" extreme poverty caused by communist control in the first place, by going to a capitalist system.

Not a fan of CCP but pretending like there was no extreme poverty in China before CCP is insane position.

More cope.

"They eliminated poverty... but at WHAT COST? They did good things but they trampled on the intellectual property of our beloved billionares? *sob*"

The "good thing" they did, is stopping their actions which causes millions to starve. Which lead to people getting themselves out of poverty.
Yeah, and whilst getting themselves out of poverty they built 50,000km of high speed rail.
The disadvantage in their system, is if the the leadership makes a wrong decision, it will stick for much longer than 4 years, and it won't be challenged.

Now, recently, they had a very good run. This must be admitted and even celebrated.

But the aforementioned flaw is still very much present.

Dictatorships work as long as they're benevolent, much like democracies work as long as they aren't bought.
It depends what you mean by work. Technology - among a myriad of other things - enables the worst dictators to stay in power, even if the country as a whole doesn't work.
Work in my post was "work for the people".
You can have a functional democracy and still do long term planning, the problem is the current US government. Its not a fundamental flaw in democracy.
>You can have a functional democracy and still do long term planning

Sure, but that's contingent on

1) the voters being well educated and not easily brainwashed by various types of propaganda pushing them to vote against their own interests (see the Germans being anti-nuclear and pro-Russian gas since the 80s) and >

2) the voters being trusted and having an actual ownership in the country so that their votes affect them directly and also having a say in how their country is run, because if whoever gets voted into power just does the opposite of what the voters want "for their own good", then you're not a democracy anymore, you're just a well functioning state (if that).

Other than Switzerland, and maybe Denmark, I don't know any democracies that constantly function well and aren't plagued with issues.

Populism is always a danger, but the current US administration is all about spite, no matter the cost. It is uniquely, outstandingly bad. Lots of places have working democracies that have managed to do long term planning.
Quite the opposite, a working, independent justice system guarantees rule of law and long term stability.
Also, China can lobby indirectly through media manipulation, and relatively cheaply disrupt our already clunky-feeling Democratic governmental processes.
It's a double edge sword. If the Boss has decided that the country should do X, it's much harder to make him reverse course if it's a bad direction. Zero covid and return to good old communism are two recent examples. For all their flaws and ineffectiveness, democracies are self correcting.