[Maro]

Promotions are always discussed in the context of "How to get promoted?". In my opinion, an important angle is left out of these discussion and conversations: do you really want to get promoted? is it worth it?

To make it simple binary, I think there are 2 kinds of promotions:

A. the kind where you pretty much continue doing what you were doing before, but with a nicer title and more money

B. the kind where the new role will put you into a whole new situation, which may or may not be a good fit for you

People always assume it'll be like 1., but there are certain career inflection points where this is not true. Approximating these in 3 minutes of typing:

1. Going from junior IC levels (where others work extra hard to support you, and are doing much of the work with you, for you) to mid IC levels.

2. Going from IC to becoming a manager.

3. Going to executive level.

4. Going to board-level executive level.

Note: I'm putting aside the handful of tech companies where people can stay on the technical track and still get ahead; at most companies you end up going into management, if for no other reason to avoid an incompetent outside hire to end up as your boss..

In the above list, 1. is of course desirable and unavoidable, but the rest should be thought over hard, for many months, and should be considered a major life decision.

Eg. recently I'v been promoted from Sr. Director (a non-executive management role) to VP (an executive manager role) — I didn't ask for it, it was a result of a re-org — and it's been super tough. Completely new rules, new crowd, new worries, but with all the worries of my old job..

As a people manager I constantly have staff ICs telling me they want to get promoted to become a Director, and I always tell them — from the bottom of my heart — enjoy the "simple life" of IC-ship while you can, once you go over to management [at any bigco], things will be much less fun. Because, if coding and building things is fun for you, then managing PIPs, procurements, vendor engagements, and corporate politics in general will not be fun.

[pjmlp]

As someone around 50y, and that much rather stay an IC than anything management, although it is unavoidable up to a point, due to mentoring and having a senior role, so far the only way to avoid being dragged into full management has been either leave the company, or being honest regardless of the possible outcome, that is what I plan to do if forced into it.

Apparently it is quite hard to pass the message that not everyone has a lifetime goal to land in management, which is a quite hard thing to fight against because in many countries, as computing is seen as yet another office job unlike the SV glamour of FAANGs, where you only succeed in life by becoming a manager.

[romanovcode]

> Do you want to get promoted?

If it pays more money - yes. Even if it does not, you can leverage position and find a different job with said new position that does pay more money.

[danaris]

Well, and that's a major part of the problem: Even if you continue doing better and better work in your current job, you will never get paid more for it. If you want more pay, you have to seek a promotion, and the only jobs that get paid really well are management jobs.

Frankly, this smells a lot like a continuation of the old feudal mindset, where the people who tell other people what to do are considered to be more worthy, more valuable, better people, than the people who just...make things with their hands.

There's really no inherent reason why the person who is coordinating my team should be considered to be more valuable than me. And there's certainly no reason why the organization should consider me qualified for that position just because I do this one really well: management is a different skillset, that one doesn't naturally gain just by doing a non-management job really well. (And I can say this with some certainty, because I have seen both very good and very bad managers, and the difference is night and day. Not just on the morale of the people they're managing, but in the results of what they create.)

[Maro]

I strongly think this is the wrong attitude. After a point, money does not buy happiness, job satisfaction or sanity.

[romanovcode]

Nobody is going to say no to 100k to 150k bump from developing to managing.

200k to 250k is a different story.

It is all relative, but in general vast majority of people would be in first example.

[danaris]

"After a point", yes.

But that point—at least in terms of its dollar value—keeps rising, and these days it's out of reach of far too many non-managers.

[loco5niner]

Yeah, but I want to get to that point.

Currently, there are a lot of things in my life (old house, old cars, etc) that more money will simply remove from being a headache in my life.