[binnacle]

I tried migrating our organization from Twingate to self-hosted Netbird for cost savings but couldn't get it working reliably for 10-15% of users. The client failed intermittently with no clear pattern to troubleshoot. It became very frustrating for our end users. My advice: if you're considering self-hosted Netbird, set clear expectations that it's best-effort QoS, not enterprise-grade reliability. There's no such thing as a cheap VPN.

[braginini]

Would you mind sharing more about the issue? We have enterprises running NetBird with thousands of users with near zero issues. Apparently it is usually other way around - people migrating from Twingate to NetBird because of the former solution instability. Well, that is from our experience.

I suggest trying NetBird cloud to eliminate a potential misconfiguration of the self-hosted instance.

[binnacle]

DNS resolution failures occurred inconsistently—sometimes due to browser caching when accessing web resources, but often for no apparent reason. For some users, restarting or reconnecting Netbird resolved it; for others, it didn't. The fact it worked flawlessly for some users while barely functioning for others suggests client-side issues. We also saw sporadic failures in cron jobs (like DB exporters) that never happened with Twingate. We followed the Helm chart configuration exactly and properly configured the Network Load Balancer with appropriate timeout settings.

[cheema33]

I have been using Netbird for my small company of 10 people for about 2 years. Users on slow connections complained that they could not stay connected with services reliably. I could not reproduce the problem as I mostly connected from very fast connections. I thought that maybe the users or their ISPs were to blame. And then one time I was using the wifi on a plane. It was a slow connection and I was connected to an RDP server. I could not stay connected. I also has Cloudflare VPN connected to the same server. It worked really well over the same connection. I went back ad forth many times as I had trouble believing how bad the Netbird connection was. Long story short, we are now completely switching over to Cloudflare VPN. It is free for first 50 users and is very very reliable, in our experience.

[PLG88]

Check out OpenZiti. Its open source, runs at prodution scale, and recently someone who used to work at Twingate said OpenZiti is many times more powerful than TG.

[smashed]

OpenZiti is promising but their desktop and mobile clients are very incomplete.

The feature set varies greatly between platforms.

If you are supporting a single platform (example desktop windows) it could work. Even better if you have the resources to write your own clients using the SDK, like it's meant to be.

[PLG88]

How are the mobile and desktop clients incomplete?? Tunnelers exist for Windows, Android, iOS, Linux, MacOS, and more - https://netfoundry.io/docs/openziti/reference/tunnelers/....

[smashed]

We evaluated it last August/Sept.

From memory: oAuth login flow (browser based) was only supported on the windows client. For a Zero trust solution, having the only auth truly supported be a permanent JWT/Cert on the machine is doing device authentication, not user authentication, thus completely failing your primary objective.

UX was overall atrocious. Our users could not comprehend it at all. It was deemed that a custom client was required to be made.

The SDK first approach was an overall major plus point, allowing for a full customization to a specific use case.

Don't get me wrong we were overall impressed with the technology and the architecture choices. It's not a finished product, but something that does all the infra and you just need to apply the final veneer on top.

[PLG88]

Ahh, I see, thanks for clarifying. That was correct, now any OIDC-compatible identity provider (Auth0, Okta, Azure/Microsoft Entra, Google, Keycloak, etc.) is supported on all the tunnelers to my knowledge.

Lots of work continues to go into the UX, but I would note that we focus most of the UI/UX work into NetFoundry, our commercial product.

[smashed]

That is good news!

The problems we had is users could not reliably tell when they were connected/disconnected, how to initiate the login flow, get network status (why is that service not working, but this other one is?), tell to which router they were connected, etc etc. I know these are big asks, and I suspect a lot of these troubleshooting and status info are probably available in the commercial offering.

That being said I think OpenZiti/NetFoundry is in a different class entirely and any lurkers here should consider it for their use. It's not really the same thing as NetBird or Tailscale.