[Juliate]

But you still won't get with 170k in the Bay Area, what you get in Paris, Madrid, Nantes or Barcelona with 80k.

In France, if you get 80k net, you do actually get ~160k, half of which is collected/distributed before by your employer to various mutualised funds (health, retirement, unemployment, state taxes, employee benefits, etc.).

And the mechanism is somewhat similar in other EU countries.

[Nextgrid]

80k net is 6.6k. If you're getting 80k (which is the very upper end of the range) it's likely you are in Paris, where you're gonna give at least 2k of that on rent for a shitty damp place, and double that for something decent.

Trust me I would love to quit consulting and be able to have a chill permanent job that can afford me a good flat and lifestyle. I'm still searching. Spain situation is very similar last time I ran the numbers.

Definitely no fucking way I'm helping anyone build a cloud provider (a cash cow considering the margins in there) for such pay. If I want to sell my soul to the devil, the one across the pond is gonna give me twice as many bucks for it.

[Juliate]

2k for a rent in Paris gets you nice places if you have the time to spend to look for it. Cooking your own food at home definitely makes a huge difference every month.

The suburb is quite nice too, if you get a few home-office days. For 4k? you can have a big house+garden at 30min from Paris center (https://www.seloger.com/classified-search?distributionTypes=...)

As a SRE, I got 65k in Nantes before I quit, and I've never had to think about any single expense at all, not once (having kids, house, dog, car, garden). That would still have been quite confortable in Paris (swapping the house for a smaller flat, and without the car/dog/garden though).

[steveBK123]

As an American these numbers are super depressing, haha. Big city US vs Europe cost of living & wages are almost like an order of magnitude different at this point.

Big house & garden 30min from Manhattan center in practice does not even exist due to the sprawl and poor transit here.

As crazy as this sounds, 65k is the wage paid here now to a doorman/concierge at the type of apartment building an NYC SRE/SWE lives in.

If you want big house & garden that looks like the listings at your link, they are maybe 45-60min commute and 2x the price.

Dining out in NYC ends up like 2X+ as expensive as London/Paris or 4X+ Madrid due to labor/real estate costs. Maybe worse, I just looked up Michelin star 5 course menus in Paris and these are like regular Thursday night 2 course dinner prices in NYC.

So in many ways we collect a much higher gross wage here to then spend it all for a lower quality of life.

[mgh95]

> But you still won't get with 170k in the Bay Area, what you get in Paris, Madrid, Nantes or Barcelona with 80k.

Note the 170k eur is in Spain -- not the bay area. I compared salaries of Google in Spain to the average salary of a senior SWE in Spain. The point isn't that the big tech pay more in the bay area compared to Spain. The point is the big tech companies pay more in Spain compared to other Spanish companies.

And 170k eur in Spain is much more than 80k eur in Spain.

[Juliate]

Oh wow. If that's 170k as an employee (not a contractor), yes, that's definitely impressive.