[nacozarina]

I did a lot of c++ in the mid-90s, often on teams with experienced C programmers new to C++.

They had little appetite for C++, it was 90% mgmt saying ‘use the shiny new thing we read about’. I was the FNG who ‘helped’ them get thru it by showing them the tools & lingo that would satisfy mgmt.

OOP is non-scientific and the snake-oil hype made it cancerous. C++ has ballooned into an absurd caricature. It obfuscates business logic with crypto-like strength, it doesn’t clarify anything. I feel like a war criminal. Replacing C++ is one thing but ridding the world of the OOP rot is a far deeper infection.

I later spent years doing my Typhoid Mary bit in the Java community before abandoning the heresy. Repent and sin no more, that’s all one can do.

[rramadass]

> OOP is non-scientific and the snake-oil hype ... ridding the world of the OOP rot is a far deeper infection.

You are spewing nonsense.

Read Bertrand Meyer's Object-Oriented Software Construction, Barbara Liskov's Program Development in Java: Abstraction, Specification, and Object-Oriented Design and Brad Cox's Object-Oriented Programming: An Evolutionary Approach for edification on OOD/OOP.

[andrekandre]

  > Brad Cox's Object-Oriented Programming: An Evolutionary Approach

i liked this one and got some good insights from it, though it was so old it was hard to get through...

the snake-oil aspect though, i think is true to a large extent:

oop became a huge hype and a marketing term, and things like c++ and java oop are so far away from the original ideas of the original 'oop' of smalltalk and we have been suffering from really bad/low quality abstractions (javas infamous FactoryFactory pattern, subclass everything etc) for a long time...

[rramadass]

> c++ and java oop are so far away from the original ideas of the original 'oop' of smalltalk

This is the fundamental misunderstanding; there is no "original OOP" but different "strains of OOP" viz. the Simula67 vs. Smalltalk models.

C++ followed the Simula approach (i.e. static object model) while Java is hybrid mixing both Simula and Smalltalk approaches (i.e. dynamic object model but with static typing). You have to look at the entirety of the OOD/OOP domain to understand how modern languages have evolved OOP support.

See also OO History: Simula and Smalltalk - https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~charlie/courses/15-214/2014-fall/sli...