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by mid-kid 144 days ago
The problem is mostly that programs started depending on aspects of systemd that are both very complex, and difficult/impossible to implement without ending up with systemd. Systemd's components don't play well with established standards (sometimes not running standalone at all), which contributes to the feeling of having to buy into the whole ecosystem just to use a small part of it, just for that one bit of a certain program that now depends on it.

This has happened with gnome's display manager, and now gnome-shell is threatening to cease functioning without systemd, as well as on systems that systemd doesn't run on such as the BSDs. KDE's new login manager is now doing the same, so in many respects, people's fears have been validated.
1 comments
Izkata 144 days ago
> Systemd's components don't play well with established standards

Here's my favorite (quickly searched for, this links to other threads): https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4ldewx/systemd...

As far as I know systemd never changed the default, people only stopped complaining because distros now override it.

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ndsipa_pomu 144 days ago
Is that "logout" referring to a user explicitly logging out from a desktop environment? I can't imagine it would apply to a closed SSH session, or at least it wouldn't make sense if it did.
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Izkata 144 days ago
According to the Bugzilla case it links to (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825394):

> It is now indeed the case that any background processes that were still running are killed automatically when the user logs out of a session, whether it was a desktop session, a VT session, or when you SSHed into a machine.

And the reddit comments include a link to a tmux issue where the suggested solution is for tmux to add systemd as a dependency (https://github.com/tmux/tmux/issues/428). Includes some back-and-forth about how all sorts of software would have to change in similar ways to accommodate systemd, instead of systemd just playing nicely with decades of established practice.

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ndsipa_pomu 144 days ago
I had no idea about that. Does seem a bizarre choice for systemd to do that.

I admin a whole bunch of headless servers and so am often SSHing to them and running long running jobs. Some of them run VNC sessions, and I certainly wouldn't want a VNC session to kill of other SSH sessions by the same user. At least with VNC, I almost never "logout" - they're often autostarted (by systemd) and just get killed when the machine gets rebooted.

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