[mikemarsh]

Presenting this quote without additional commentary is an interesting Rorschach test.

Thankfully more and more people are seriously considering the effects of technology on true wisdom and getting of the "all technological progress clearly is great, look at all these silly unenlightened naysayers from the past" train.

[runarberg]

Socrates was right about the effects. Writing did indeed cause us to loose the talent of memorizing. Where he was wrong though (or rather where this quote without context is wrong) is that it turned out that memorizing was by the most part not the important skill to have.

When Socrates uses the same warnings about LLMs he may however be correct both on the effect and the importance of the skill being lost. If we loose the ability to think and solve various problems, we may indeed be loosing a very important skill of our humanity.

[eaglelamp]

You're misinterpreting the quote. Socrates is saying that being able to find a written quotation will replace fully understanding a concept. It's the difference between being able to quote the pythagorean theorem and understanding it well enough to prove it. That's why Socrates says that those who rely on reading will be "hard to get along with" - they will be pedantic without being able to discuss concepts freely.

[throw10920]

Huh, I think you're right. I think I failed the litmus test. Thanks for explaining!

[AIorNot]

While there are dangers to LLMs -science fiction has been talking about this issue for decades (see below) and I think its overblown and the point of the Socrates quote is valid.

e.g the Matrix Reloaded: https://youtu.be/cD4nhYR-VRA?si=bXGBI4ca-LaetLVl&t=69 Machines no one understand or can manage

Issac Asmiov's Classic - the Feeling of Power https://ia600806.us.archive.org/20/items/TheFeelingOfPower/T...

(future scientists discover how to add using paper and pencil instead of computer)

I mean Big Paradigm shifts are like death, we can't really predict how humanity will evolve if we really get AGI -but these LLMs as they work today are tools and humans are experts at finding out how to use tools efficiently to counter the trade offs.

Does it really matter today that most programmers don't know how to code in assembly for example?

[runarberg]

I’m not making a Malthusian doomsday prediction, and neither was Socrates for that matter. Jobs need to be done, and there will always be somebody willing and able to acquire the relevant skills, and do the job. And in the worst case scenario, society will change it self before it is allowed to fail.

Unlike Malthus, for whom it was easier to imagine the end of the world then the end of Mercantilism, I can easily imagine a world which simply replaces capitalism as its institutions start producing existential threats for humanity.

However, I don‘t think LLMs are even that, for me they are an annoyance which I personally want gone, but next to climate change and the stagnation of population growth, they wont make a dent in upending capitalism, despite how much they suck.

But just because they are not an existential threat, that doesn’t make them harmless. Plenty of people will be harmed by this technology. Like Socrates predicted people will lose skills, this includes skilled programmers, and where previously we were getting some quality software, instead we will get less of it, replaced with a bunch of AI slop. That is my prediction at least.