[elric]

> We are really seeing the fears of data collection from the 2000s and 2010s come to fruition as privatized surveillance now. Cambridge analytica should have been the warning shot but it wasn't enough.

I remember protesting against data retention laws in the early 2000s. People thought we were nuts for using historical examples about the Nazis abusing all kinds of records to hunt down Jews. History was never going to repeat itself that way.

Until it did.

[ahzhzvH]

> Nazis abusing all kinds of records to hunt down Jews. History was never going to repeat itself that way

Kinda ironic but I think you’ve got the current situation a little backwards. Karp (who is Jewish) has boasted about Palantir being used to hunt down the “far right”: https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/28/palantir_boss_fii_spe...

I think it’s very important to focus on how data collection of this nature is bad, not that “because Nazis did it” it’s bad. The latter is exactly what Karp wants, and he can turn around and say he’s actually preventing Nazis. Similar to how the Holocaust narrative is used to justify the Palestinian genocide.

[muwtyhg]

It's not bad because the Nazis did it. It's bad because it can be abused, and we can point to a historical example in the Nazis. If the Nazis had not done it, it would not be used as an example, but it would still be a negative possible outcome

[rob74]

Ok, so Palantir was used to prevent terror attacks in Europe, which would have presumably led to (even more) popularity of the far right. Palantir is also being used by the current far-right US administration (who, unlike the Nazis, like Jews and are even in part Jewish, but hate immigrants, Muslims, LGBTQ people, liberals etc. etc.) to hunt down immigrants based on their medical data. I fail to see how these two are connected, except for the same tool being used in both cases? This is actually one of the fears that data protection advocates had all along: first, these tools will be used to catch terrorists, then mostly harmless illegal immigrants, and then anyone else the regime doesn't like.

[buellerbueller]

>Palantir was used to prevent terror attacks in Europe

...according to an unsubstantiated claim by the CEO of Palantir while on a PR tour.

[ImPostingOnHN]

> I think it’s very important to focus on how data collection of this nature is bad, not that “because Nazis did it” it’s bad.

It's bad for both reasons. Palantir is the IBM of our time, using scaled data engineering to handle the tracking and incarceration of ethnic minorities, who are quickly shipped off for worse persecution, including torture, at government-run camps, all without any due process.

> he can turn around and say he’s actually preventing Nazis

Anyone can say anything absurd, counterfactual, and unconvincing, regardless of circumstances. For us to consider it true, we'd need some evidence that it is at least more true than the opposite.

> Say thank you," Karp added.

Thanks for the link. Wow, I didn't realize that he was such an insufferable, sociopathic, abusive douchebag as a person. Like a wife-beater who insists his victim thank him for it.

[buellerbueller]

You are correct, but the way you word your comment makes it seem like you are an apologist for Karp. I can't tell if that's why you are being downvoted, or the HN Fascist brigade.

These kinds of mass surveillance data ops should be illegal, regardless of who is doing it.

[JumpCrisscross]

> People thought we were nuts for using historical examples about the Nazis abusing all kinds of records to hunt down Jews

What data-retention issues do you have with HHS having patients’ home addresses?

[sbarre]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[JumpCrisscross]

Sure. I’m calling out data-retention discussions as entirely orthogonal to HHS data being used for immigration enforcement.

There isn’t a data-retention issue with HHS having home records, there is an abuse issue with DHS giving it to Palantir to VLOOKUP addresses out of.

[elric]

It certainly wasn't intended as a straw man argument. I was speaking to the broader issue that any data that's gathered anywhere can be used against people. Even if it seems like there are good reasons to store it.

I think you may have missed that I was replying specifically to this part of a parent comment and agreeting with it:

> We are really seeing the fears of data collection from the 2000s and 2010s come to fruition