[ModernMech]

You have to remember that "the government" is not a monolith. Evidence goes before a judge who is (supposed to be) independent, and cases are tried in front of a jury of citizens. In the future that system may fall but for now it's working properly. Except for the Supreme Court... which is a giant wrench in the idea the system still works, but that doesn't mean a lower court judge won't jettison evidence obtained by gunpoint.

[short_sells_poo]

The courts may (still) be independent, but it feels like they are pointless because the government just wholesale ignores them anyway. If the executive branch doesn't enforce, or selectively enforces court judgements, you may as well shutter the courts.

[ModernMech]

I would say if you ever want to prosecute these people, then you're going to need a mountain of evidence. Having all these court decisions they flagrantly violate for 4 years is going to great evidence at their trials. It may not give us much solace now, but all of their defenses are going to rest on intent, and it's going to be helpful in proving their state of mind that they willfully defied federal court orders, lied to judges, etc. Because they control all the evidence of their own criminality within the Executive branch, we should expect a lot of it will be destroyed when they are gone. Establishing independent records now through court proceedings will preserve those records past the administration end date.

[cperciva]

Evidence goes before a judge

What evidence went before a judge prior to the two latest executions in Minneapolis?

[gruez]

There's a pretty big difference between getting killed in an altercation with ICE, and executing someone just because they refuse to give up their password.

[direwolf20]

Not really. ICE breaks into your home — remember they don't need a warrant for this. Demands to see your phone. It's locked. Holds a gun to your head and demands you unlock it. You refuse. Pulls the trigger.

Does it really seem that far–fetched when compared to the other ICE murders?

[gruez]

>Does it really seem that far–fetched when compared to the other ICE murders?

No, not really, because in the two killings you can vaguely argue they felt threatened. Pointing a gun to someone's head and demanding the password isn't anywhere close to that. Don't get me wrong, the killings are an affront to civil liberties and should be condemned/prosecuted accordingly, but to think that ICE agents are going around and reenacting the opening scene from Inglorious Bastards shows that your worldview can't handle more nuance than "fascism? true/false".

[youarentrightjr]

> but to think that ICE agents are going around and reenacting the opening scene from Inglorious Bastards shows that your worldview can't handle more nuance than "fascism? true/false".

Precisely.

There's no question that ICE is daily trampling civil liberties (esp 4th amendment).

But in both killings there is a reasonable interpretation that they feared for their lives.

Now should they have is another question. With better training, a 6v1 < 5ft engagement can easily disarm anyone with anything less than a suicide vest.

But still, we aren't at the "run around and headshot dissenters" phase.

[worthless-trash]

The old 'shoot em in the leg' defense.

[direwolf20]

> there is a reasonable interpretation that they feared for their lives

... Did you watch the videos from multiple people filming?