[hliyan]

When I used to work with C many years ago, it was basically: download the headers and the binary file for your platform from the official website, place them in the header/lib paths, update the linker step in the Makefile, #include where it's needed, then use the library functions. It was a little bit more work than typing "npm install", but not so much as to cause headaches.

[zbentley]

What do you do when the code you downloaded refers to symbols exported by libraries not already on your system? How do you figure out where those symbols should come from? What if it expects version-specific behavior and you’ve already installed a newer version of libwhatever on your system (I hope your distro package manager supports downgrades)?

These are very, very common problems; not edge cases.

Put another way: y'all know we got all these other package management/containerization/isolation systems in large part because people tried the C-library-install-by-hand/system-package-all-the-things approaches and found them severely lacking, right? CPAN was considered a godsend for a reason. NPM, for all its hilarious failings, even moreso.

[JohnFen]

> These are very, very common problems; not edge cases.

Honestly? Over the course of my career, I've only rarely encountered these sorts of problems. When I have, they've come from poorly engineered libraries anyway.

[bengarney]

Here is a thought experiment (for devs who buy into package managers). Take the hash of a program and all its dependency. Behavior is different for every unique hash. With package managers, that hash is different on every system, including hashes in the future that are unknowable by you (ie future "compatible" versions of libraries).

That risk/QA load can be worth it, but is not always. For an OS, it helps to be able to upgrade SSL (for instance).

In my use cases, all this is a strong net negative. npm-base projects randomly break when new "compatible" version of libraries install for new devs. C/C++ projects don't build because of include/lib path issues or lack of installation of some specific version or who knows what.

If I need you to install the SDL 2.3.whatever libraries exactly, or use react 16.8.whatever to be sure the app runs, what's the point of using a complex system that will almost certainly ensure you have the wrong version? Just check it in, either by an explicit version or by committing the library's code and building it yourself.

[sebastos]

Check it in and build it yourself using the common build system that you and the third party dependency definitely definitely share, because this is the C/C++ ecosystem?

[tpoacher]

You are conflating development with distribution of binaries (a problem which interpreted languages do not have, I hasten to add).

1. The accepted solution to what you're describing in terms of development, is passing appropriate flags to `./configure`, specifying the path for the alternative versions of the libraries you want to use. This is as simple as it gets.

As for where to get these libraries from in the event that the distro doesn't provide the right version, `./configure` is basically a script. Nothing stopping you from printing a couple of ftp mirrors in the output to be used as a target to wget.

2. As for the problem of distribution of binaries and related up-to-date libraries, the appropriate solution is a distro package manager. A c package manager wouldn't come into this equation at all, unless you wanted to compile from scratch to account for your specific circumstances, in which case, goto 1.

[fredrikholm]

And with header only libraries (like stb) its even less than that.

I primarily write C nowadays to regain sanity from doing my day job, and the fact that there is zero bit rot and setup/fixing/middling to get things running is in stark contrast to the horrors I have to deal with professionally.

[krautsauer]

And then you got some minor detail different from the compiled library and boom, UB because some struct is layed out differently or the calling convention is wrong or you compiled with a different -std or …

[rwmj]

Which is exactly why you should leave it to the distros to construct a consistent build environment. If your distro regularly gets this wrong then you do have a problem.