[steve_adams_86]

It's actually remarkable how difficult it's made. My only experience is here in BC. In a couple of years I've learned that it's practically punitive, and you have to want to do it really badly. The risk to reward ration is abysmal. I only continue because it's more of a passion project than an economically viable, sensible project. It could become one eventually, but my god, I'd hate to be doing this without a full time job to depend on.

[wahnfrieden]

Can you give more details? I'm simply a sole proprietorship in Canada so not sure what I'm getting myself into.

[StayTrue]

Don’t worry too much. I’ve incorporated in AB and BC. Neither is difficult to setup or maintain. My regulatory burden amounts to about one weekend of effort per year including corporate tax filings. That’s a baseline. Harder if you employ a team (not just subcontractors) or in regulated industries where you might have environmental compliance or similar.

[steve_adams_86]

This is a much better summary than mine. It really is fine if you don't venture into places where various types of compliance come into the picture.

[steve_adams_86]

I think some things could make your work far easier than mine, but in my case there are a lot of hoops to jump through. I initially wanted to bootstrap myself in my garage, but discovered over time that this is essentially illegal and I'm required to operate out of a business address. This is also virtually forced on me because there are a variety of compounds I can't order without a registered business and accompanying business address, which is manually verified. Fine, I totally get regulations around hazardous chemicals, though in my case it seems excessive. But, if I were to summarize the things that have been most frustrating:

  - Rents in industrial spaces are absurd in my area, and I suspect they are for most of Canada in any HCOL area. If you can't wing it out of your garage, your burn rate just exploded
  - Getting permits has been exorbitantly slow and complex
  - WorkSafeBC cooperation and inspections are a major time sink (gets better after the first stretch)
  - Getting certficates to export plants is—in my opinion—unnecessarily complex and slow, such that I don't think I'll even bother at this rate
  - Inter-provincial regulations and standards can be hard as hell to nail down. Asking random people on forums can yield better results than extensive google or LLM querying
  - Keeping track of things like write offs and deductions can span years for single costs. I understand why, but I don't like it
  - Admin and oversight often feels like half the job. I need to be on top of so many things that aren't 'the work', and it takes a lot away from focusing on making a better product
  - Shipping things is expensive as hell, and I anticipate this problem will worsen over time. Not a big deal if you don't ship anything
  - Depending on the type of business you've registered, the admin overhead at different times of the year can be significant

It probably sounds like I don't understand what regulations are for and I hate red tape, but that's not the case at all. I think small businesses are disproportionately slammed by some of the requirements they create, though. I also wonder if there are blanket policies which cause some people to be pressed much harder than necessary. It makes you wonder if any of it is worth it at all.

Again though, if you just go around repairing things or you provide software services, your life will be orders of magnitude simpler. I used to have a sole proprietorship here in BC providing software consulting services, and it was fine. I had one tax hiccup in something like 10 years, and it wasn't a big deal. I rarely had to think about it.

I do wonder if this friction could be part of why Canada arguably has a lack of interest and innovation when it comes to producing material goods. It's genuinely a pain in the ass to be allowed to do it by the books, and to continue operating accordingly.

Caveat: I could be lazy and stupid

[abdullahkhalids]

Thanks for your comment. I have in my mind to start a hardware focused business in Ontario. I am a little afraid now, but hopefully, I have better luck than you.

Can you expand a bit more on how difficult it is to deliver hardware product orders to other countries? Whichever countries you have experience in.

[steve_adams_86]

In my case I need phytosanitary certificates, with the complexity and overhead varying by destination. It isn't hardware like electronics or manufactured goods, but sterile plant cultures in jars. The main requirement is having the products and pipeline inspected by the CFIA.

The primary tension and strain comes from deciding where your market is, I think. You can simplify your overhead in obtaining certificates and building your workflows by choosing to sell to a market where these factors are minimally taxing (like just selling in Ontario or across Canada), but in my case this limits my market too much. Not that many people in Canada are buying what I sell, but there are large markets in other countries that are underserved.

I have a feeling hardware is much easier. What you're developing is probably not illegal or considered high risk where you want to sell it. In my case, some of the products I sell are banned outright because the province or state it's going to considers it invasive. Even with the certificates, I can't sell some species in some locations. Figuring out all of these requirements and rules in advance is essential so your shipments don't end up rejected and destroyed at the border.

What kind of hardware are you manufacturing?

[abdullahkhalids]

Thanks for the detailed answer.

> What kind of hardware are you manufacturing?

Simple electronics. Think a flashlight or something a bit more complex. Product contains a lithium ion battery.

[steve_adams_86]

Not sure if you'll see this reply, but I thought this might be of interest: https://www.simonberens.com/p/lessons-learned-shipping-500-u...

[steve_adams_86]

Nice, that sounds fun! Some day I'd love to explore that kind of product development and manufacturing. I think there's certification involved there too, though I'm not sure if there is if it's not a home appliance. I hope it's smooth sailing!

[Sanzig]

Hardware should be much easier, especially if you get your boards fabbed and assembled at a CM (which you probably should, very few companies have a good reason to move assembly in-house).

[steve_adams_86]

> especially if you get your boards fabbed and assembled at a CM

I wasn't aware that this simplifies things. How does that work?

[adfm]

Sounds like an opportunity for co-working lab spaces.