[DyslexicAtheist]

> I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to come.

for this to happen the EVs depreciation needs to drastically improve compared to ICE. I don't see this. On top of this EVs tend to push ideas from Software/Tech companies, such as recurring revenues (because the underlying technology lends itself to it better).

Personally I'm unsure that this will be accepted by all consumers as much as is needed. After all the automotive marketing has since Ford insisted that driving was about "freedom". So some pivot needs to happen in the messaging. Suppose decades is a lot of time to change it. Personally I think EVs are nonsense, and a better utopia would be making sure public transport is abundant, high-quality and free.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> For this to happen the EVs depreciation needs to drastically improve compared to ICE.

Define "improve" ?

One way for "ICE cars completely become a thing of the past" is for there to be lots of cheap, reliable, second-hand EVs. If you can buy a good used EV for less then yes, a barrier to quitting ICE cars has been removed.

That's an improvement. The car doesn't have to be an asset, it could be more like a utility.

EV depreciation seems to be driven by

1) rapidly advancing state of the art, which should eventually stabilise and

2) Fears of battery lifespan, which in current vehicles is largely unfounded

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-cars-could-last-much-lo...

https://insideevs.com/news/763231/ev-battery-degradation-lif...

[cbeach]

Public transport will never recreate the freedom of car ownership.

It’s a collectivist dream not rooted in reality.

[saagarjha]

I’m not going to try to convince you that you can’t control your immediate environment better in a car, but not having to deal with parking or insurance or traffic is quite freeing.

[vel0city]

You know what would make me more free? Being able to just walk and bike to all the places I want to go, and not have to pay car insurance and the energy cost and the high upfront cost or a loan to buy a giant chunk of metal every time I need a loaf of bread.

You know what would make my kids more free? If they could just play outside without the giant death machines flying by with their operators looking at their phones well over the speed limit.

I'm trapped in a world where I need to spend a good chunk of my life in a cage just to work and eat, and you call that "freedom".

[cbeach]

You’re free to live in some dense urban environment where amenities are a five min walk away, and everyone relies on underground trains, busses and taxis.

If you think “freedom” means not having a car, then there are options for you.

I moved out of a dense urban public-transport-and-cycling environment into a countryside town with heaps of space, and where everyone happily owns cars to give them the freedom to go wherever they like, whenever they like, taking family and cargo with them, without issue.

I would never go back to the urban environment, waiting around for public transport, being limited to the routes served by public transport, useless cycle lanes everywhere (what good is a bike when I need to transport my 3 year old, 6 year old, and all our shopping?). And the stifling density of housing and amenities was oppressive and unpleasant.

There is a better way. Move to countryside town, buy an EV that cost negligible amounts to run, cases negligible local pollution, and is a joy to own.

[vel0city]

> You’re free to live in some dense urban environment where amenities are a five min walk away, and everyone relies on underground trains, busses and taxis.

Not really. People are often tied to lots of areas for a number of reasons, and we don't build this much of this kind of urban environment in the US. We've made it largely illegal to build this in most of the country. I'm not free to really live that kind of life.

For most Americans, it's not an option.

> what good is a bike when I need to transport my 3 year old, 6 year old, and all our shopping?

If it was designed well enough your six year old should be able to ride on their own bike with you. You can take a lot of stuff with you with an even mildly powerful electric bicycle. And I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to have the option for a car, but we've designed our urban spaces to be actively hostile to everything but a car when we really didn't have to. Freedom is being able to choose, not be forced into only one option.

[jodrellblank]

Rarely in everyday life situations do I feel as claustrophobic as being in a car in traffic in a typical road.

Can’t change direction (one lane no junctions), can’t change speed (vehicles in front and behind), can’t stop (flow of traffic), can’t break concentration (driving), can’t change body position (car cabin is tiny, seats and hand/feet controls are fixed, no space to stand), can’t look away for more than a moment (responsibility of driving).

And the only places to go are on the predetermined road, from a car park, to a car park, following a lot of strict prescribed rules about how.

This meme of “freedom” is brainwashing and marketing (which has been picked up as an identity thing by the right wing recently).

There’s nothing free about having to use a $20,000 vehicle to buy bread because no other options are available.

[B1FIDO]

I do not own a vehicle, and most of my life I've depended on public transit. Lately, I take Waymos or I ride scooters, or use public transit as usual.

Sometimes, for special errands, I rent a car. For example, I intended to move across town last year, so I rented a car for 3-4 days.

It was the most excruciating pain I could have. I chose a little Mitsubishi Mirage, and firstly, it was the middle of July in the Sonoran Desert, and the A/C hardly worked, so I was sweating, and the car would heat up real good in parking lots. No sun shades, dark upholstery. Also, the USB connection was flaky, so sometimes my phone didn't charge, and whether or not, it was directly exposed to the Sun and overheating.

By the second day, my legs hurt a lot. I had spent an unexpected amount of time on my feet and walking around, despite the vehicle. Do you know how big parking lots are these days?!

I tried sitting down at every opportunity. I have a running gag/dispute at my bank to see whether they will allow me to "sit down" at the "ADA/Disabled" teller window.

Driving home at night on the last night, my leg cramped up really bad. I was in such pain, I nearly pulled over because it was my accelerator/brake leg and I was going to lose control of the car.

Thankfully I was able to hold it together, and returned the car the next day, but boy I did not want such a vehicle ever again. And it was not a stick-shift; it was an automatic transmission.

Next time I'm going to be really sure that the USB and A/C work. And that my legs are super-comfortable and has cruise control.

[cbeach]

No one is forcing you to drive if you have these peculiar feelings about it.

[vel0city]

For most of the country you can't really get groceries or have reasonable employment without operating a car. We've designed our cities to make it effectively a requirement.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

It entirely depends on where you live. You could live in a dense urban area with abundant transport options, where owning a car is more trouble than it's worth, or in a more spread-out community where it's nigh-essential.

[jodrellblank]

That’s not true, that’s your mental gymnastics to try to defend the ideology you have taken on.

While there are no alternatives with similar funding and societal support to driving, car dependency forces many people to drive even for trivial things. Most car journeys are less than three miles. That’s a bonkers state of affairs for the planet and for human history.

All 110 billion humans who ever lived couldn’t possibly be considered “not free” because they didn’t have cars to get to the nearest stream or nut tree. Wild animals aren’t considered to have “no freedom” because they don’t own cars.

[otabdeveloper4]

> Hey! Stop right there! Do you have a license and registration for that freedom?

God I love freedom so much.

[unixhero]

Yep and politicians believe they can recreate utopian Singapore wherever they are governing. Regarding eliminating car use.