[orionsbelt]

Well, from what I’ve seen, the most likely theory is that the agent who disarmed the man (after another agent had yelled “gun”) then accidentally discharged the weapon, which caused all the other ICE officers to freak out and discharge their weapons.

I don’t want to argue over the broader questions; ie should ICE even be there and doing this; are they adequately trained; are they overly aggressive to tackle this guy and pepper spray him in the first instance; is American law enforcement is way too trigger happy and protective of their own skin; and so on. There’s a lot of validity to all of that. But the narrow story of this particular incident changes a lot if there was an accidental discharge that made the other offices believe he was shooting.

[text0404]

You can quite clearly see the second shooter in the video standing over him, shooting him multiple times as he's laying motionless on the ground after being beaten and shot once.

> the most likely theory

According to whom? What's your source for this? Wild that you're trying to muddy the waters with "theories" that even ICE hasn't claimed (the only defense so far is that he was a violent domestic terrorist who wanted to murder ICE agents, which is demonstrably false).

[orionsbelt]

> You can quite clearly see the second shooter in the video standing over him, shooting him multiple times as he's laying motionless on the ground after being beaten and shot once.

Yes, that's how cops/ICE react when they hear gunshots. They shoot and ask questions later. I'm not necessarily defending that (I think it would be a great thing if cops/ICE received more extensive training, cared more about de-escalation techniques, and perhaps even were more willing to risk their own lives than just always shoot recklessly), but putting all that aside, if someone yells "gun", and then a shot is fired, the second shooter then assuming it's the guy they are tackling that shot, and shooting him multiple times in response, is a typical cop reaction. So the main question is - who fired the first shot and why? The moral weight of the event, at least in my view, is very different if it was ICE deliberately shooting, or an accidental discharge that triggered everything.

> According to whom? What's your source for this? Wild that you're trying to muddy the waters with "theories" that even ICE hasn't claimed (the only defense so far is that he was a violent domestic terrorist who wanted to murder ICE agents, which is demonstrably false).

Most likely according to me, based on the videos I have seen (https://x.com/Landeur/status/2015191223900803407). I could be wrong. I was responding to someone who said there's clear video that it was a deliberate execution. The water of any breaking news reporting is already muddy; it's all speculation on all sides.

[text0404]

You're the only person speculating about their motives. Everyone else is watching the same incident, shot from multiple cameras/angles, which make it clear that an extreme escalation of violence from untrained ICE agents towards a man who was attempting to help a woman (who was also attacked in a show of excessive force) ended in his unnecessary death. The motives are irrelevant - these people are untrained, trigger-happy, and just killed another person.

[UncleMeat]

> But the narrow story of this particular incident changes a lot if there was an accidental discharge that made the other offices believe he was shooting.

Does it? What you are describing is still a monstrous crime. The federal government is insisting that absolutely nothing went wrong and that Pretti was intending to massacre ICE agents. Even taking an enormously charitable reading of the killing I am still horrified by the actions of the government here.

[ghuroo1]

stop excusing murder.

the man was holding a phone before being violated, and when on the floor, with both hands on the floor, was shot almost 10 times.

watch the videos.

[orionsbelt]

You too. Tell me if you disagree that this seems to show the officer who removed the gun may have plausibly accidentally discharged the first shot: https://x.com/Landeur/status/2015191223900803407

The footage is too grainy to say anything for certain in my view.

[youngtaff]

So what?

They beat the shit out of him first — what rationale is there for doing that?

[throw0101c]

> Well, from what I’ve seen, the most likely theory is that the agent who disarmed the man (after another agent had yelled “gun”) then accidentally discharged the weapon, which caused all the other ICE officers to freak out and discharge their weapons.

Then an investigation should clear up the situation and exonerate the ICE folks. But ICE/FBI are (a) not investigating any of the shootings, and (b) are blocking the local police from investigating.

In the Renee Good case, the FBI is actually 'investigating' the victim of the shooting.