[theLiminator]

Yes, they push the MS account stuff very hard. I've found Windows so actively hostile to the user that I basically only use Linux now.

I used to be a windows user, it has really devolved to the point where it's easier for me to use Linux (though I'm technical). I really feel for the people who aren't technical and are forced to endure the crap that windows pushes on users now.

[J_Shelby_J]

> actively hostile

That’s the real problem MS has. It’s becoming a meme how bad the relationship between the user and windows is. It’s going to cause generational damage to their company just so they can put ads in the start menu.

[josephg]

It’s a pity for Apple that they keep making macOS worse with each major update. Modern Apple hardware running snow leopard would be a thing of beauty.

At this rate, my next laptop might end up being a framework running Linux.

[seemaze]

I switched from Windows to Mac 15 years ago. It was a revelation when the terrible habits of verbally abusing my computer and anxiety saving files every 22 seconds just evaporated.

Those old habits have been creeping back lately through all the various *OS 26 updates. I too now have Linux on Framework. Not perfect, but so much better for my wellbeing.

[eimrine]

The 7 did not behave like that.

[grayhatter]

Mine already is... it's so nice not to be disrespected every time I turn on my laptop.

I recommend it.

[heavyset_go]

Buy a laptop with less problems on Linux if that's your intention.

[josephg]

What laptops would you recommend? I didn’t realise framework laptops struggled with Linux?

[heavyset_go]

I bought and returned an AMD Framework. I knew what I was getting into, but the build quality + firmware quality were lacking, sleep was bad and I'm not new to fixing Linux sleep issues. Take a look at the Linux related support threads on their forum.

I've been using AMD EliteBooks, the firmware has Linux happy paths, the hardware is supported by the kernel and Modern Standby actually works well. Getting one with a QHD to UHD screen is mandatory, though, and I wouldn't buy a brand new model without confirming it has working hardware on linux-hardware.org.

If you look online, HP has a YouTube channel with instructional videos for replacing and repairing every part of their laptops. They are made to make memory, storage and WiFi/5G card replacements easy, parts are cheap and the after market for them is healthy.

I've also had good luck with their support, they literally overnight'd a new laptop with a return box for the broken one in a day.

[vladvasiliu]

We have Elitebooks at work and can confirm that the 8x0 series, at least until G8, has superb Linux support out of the box (and I run Arch, by the way). IME it's actually better than Windows, since both my AMD and Intel models have had things not working on Windows (the AMD still often hangs during sleep).

> Getting one with a QHD to UHD screen is mandatory

But I have to ask: are those screens actually any good? Ours have FHD panels, and I have not seen a single one with a decent screen.

There are roughly two categories: either the el-cheapo screens, with washed-out colors (6 bpp panels on a 1500 EUR laptop!) and dimmer than the moonlight through closed shades, but they have usable angles; or the "sure view" version with very bright backlight, usable outside (not in direct sunlight, of course) with, on paper, ok colors (specs say 100% sRGB) but laughably bad viewing angles (with the sureview off, of course) and, in practice, questionable color fidelity.

These are also fairly expensive, around 1500 EUR, and the components are of questionable quality. The SSDs in particular are dog-slow (but they're very easy to replace).

I have two 5-year-old 840 G8s (one Intel, one AMD), and they have both held up fine, but I usually don't abuse my laptops (my 2013 MBP still looks brand new aside from some scratches). However, looking around at my colleagues' laptops, they tend to fall apart, and I can count on one hand the ones still in good shape. The usual suspects seem to be the barrel power connector and the keyboard. Newer models only have USB-C AFAIK (mine have both, but came with a USB-C power adapter in the box). But they tend to look pretty bad in general, with very misaligned panels and fragile USB ports.

[IgorPartola]

Lenovo T and X series are excellent and cheap as dirt used. There is also System 76. Or you could get a MacBook and boot Linux on that. Some older ones work well, I hear.

[nandomrumber]

I’ve been using exclusively HP EliteBook, including x360 models, laptops recently (past 5 years) and they’ve all been 100% on Linux.

[josephg]

> Or you could get a MacBook and boot Linux on that. Some older ones work well, I hear.

Is linux support on the M1/M2 models as good as linux support on x86 laptops? My understanding was that there's still a fair bit of hardware that isn't fully supported. Like, external displays and Bluetooth.

[vee-kay]

I use an old Lenovo AIO PC to dual boot Linux Mint and Windows 10. It works well from a hardware and firmware perspective, but I've deliberately avoided Windows 11 as it is crapware.

I have done triple booting of MacOS, Linux and Windows on an old Mac Mini, and it was a nightmare to get them working, but worked well once set up.

I think well known brands and models of PCs are better for such alternative setups, rather than obscure PCs.

[grayhatter]

They don't. I don't know what they're talking about, but I've had fewer problems with linux on my framework than weird stuff on my OSX work machine. And I'm running Alpine on my framework, so if anything should be wonky it's this one.

[dotancohen]

I've used Dell Inspiron laptops in the past, never had a problem. WiFi, multimonitor output, bluetooth, etc all work out of the box with Debian or Ubuntu.

[cess11]

I've had very few issues with Lenovo and Toshiba. They're generally somewhat repairable. EliteBook and Z Book from HP seems fine for Linux too, but I've never had to fiddle with hardware except that I once removed a battery from an EliteBook.

[sandworm101]

Get whatever is most popular on amazon at your price point. All the most popular hardware should work fine with any of the most popular distros.

[backscratches]

Starlabs

[GaryBluto]

I still use Snow Leopard on a high-spec 2008 Mac Pro for most of my personal projects. Works a charm and is fast as ever.

[IgorPartola]

It’s funny because I started with Windows 3.1 and it was actively user hostile then. From 3.1 to XP it was awful. Then it got slightly better with 7, and went downhill from there.

Realistically, a major Linux distro is the most user-beneficial thing you can do and today it is easier than ever. If my 12 year old can figure out how to use it productively, so can anyone. Switch today and enjoy.

[b112]

Maoboro cigarettes uaed to be for women, including red tipped filters to hide lipstick marks. Sales waned, so they actually rebranded the cigarette for men, and even succeeded in making it a definition of manliness.

Advertising stories like that, make sure M$ execs could care less about damage to their image.

Especially when profit leers its head.

(at least, I presume?!?)

[to11mtm]

It is sad that we got to here from when the worst problem was a tile start menu (I liked 8.1 and it ran good on fairly trash hardware.)

[tonyedgecombe]

You just have to look at who buys Windows to understand this. It's OEM's and enterprises. Almost nobody buys an individual license. That's why they don't care. As an individual you get what your employer or hardware supplier says, like it or lump it.

[gorbachev]

They don't care. All of their money is on AI.

[RIMR]

Linux is so much better than it used to be. You really don't need to be technical.

I have been recommending Kubuntu to Windows people. I find it's an easier bet than Linux Mint. You get the stability of Ubuntu, plus the guarantee of a Windows-like environment.

Yes, I know, Linux Mint supports Plasma, but I honestly think the "choose your desktop" part of the setup process is more confusing to a newbie than just recommending a distro with the most Windows-like UI and a straightforward installation.

[godelski]

Generally I recommend people use PopOS. It's well suited for laptops, as that's what System76 is focused on a they're shipping laptops with Nvidia GPUs. I personally prefer Arch based distorts like endeavor but even with wide community support it's just more likely a noob will face an error. Fwiw I've only faced one meaningful error in the last 3 years in endeavor but I've also been daily driving Linux for 15 years now

[rubyn00bie]

I’ve been using PopOS for the last five years and while I generally agree… the latest release using Cosmic by default has a lot to be desired. Cosmic will eventually be good but right now it’s far from it and I had to install Gnome as a stop gap just to have a functional desktop environment. I’ll probably ditch PopOS for Arch + KDE but I haven’t had the time to do so yet for my workstation.

Truly, and to really drive it home, I’ve loved PopOS but this latest release is just too half baked. I think anyone considering it should either wait a year or use something else, and Kubuntu seems like a reasonable alternative for people coming from Windows or MacOS.

[godelski]

That's unfortunate to hear.

I'd give kde a shot. It's been my preferred DE for years. But check out the below wiki and poke around for what your style is. The beauty of linux is adapting to you and switching DEs is a quick change (you do not need to change your DM to change your DE).

If you're interested on Arch then give something like EndeavourOS a shot. Cachy is getting popular these days too but I haven't used it. But I feel its going to be as easy as using Endeavour or Manjaro and those are very convenient distros for Arch with direct Nvidia GPU support. Though if you want you learn Linux I suggest going Vanilla Arch. You'll learn a lot from the install process (it isn't uncommon to mess up. You won't brick anything and learning about the chroot environment will help you in the future of you do mess things up)

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Desktop_environment

[dummydummy1234]

Eh, not for laptops - I say as someone who switched to Linux from windows in past year.

I have spent a decent few days to get long battery life on Linux (fedora), with sleep hibernate + encryption. And I am still thinking that the Linux scheduler is not correctly using Intel's pcore/ecore on 13th gen correctly.

[godelski]

If you have an Nvidia GPU you're generally going to need to edit the systemd services and change some kernel settings. This is a real pain point to be honest and it should be easier than it is (usually not too bad tbh)

If you want I can try to help you debug it. I don't have a fedora system but I can spin up a VM or nspawn to try to match your environment if you want

[pimeys]

I just got a lunar lake laptop and in CachyOS you can just enable either scx_lavd or scx_bpfland from the kernel settings. I use them both: bpfland guarantees that the active application runs smoothly even if you compile code in the background, and lavd focuses on energy saving a bit more. They both understand how to use the P and E cores: especially the lavd scheduler puts the active app to a P core and all the background apps to the E cores.

[tatersolid]

> you can just enable either scx_lavd or scx_bpfland from the kernel settings

So Linux is still nowhere near an option for non technical users.

[pimeys]

It just depends on one distro to default on scx_bpfland.

For technical users, it's already the best option.

[LtWorf]

The hybernate works like shit thanks to microsoft asking manufacturers to remove deep sleep. Yay!