[entropicdrifter]

My family is almost 100% Asker. When I got to college, I drove Guessers nuts. They thought I was so selfish and would blow up at me (from my perspective) out of nowhere.

"No" is always a perfectly fine and polite answer from my perspective

[arcfour]

It's a shame more people don't assume good faith so we can have more direct and honest communication with each other.

[cvoss]

Guessers don't believe Askers are asking in bad faith at all. If Guessers did believe that, it would be way easier for them to say no to Askers. It's precisely because the Guesser believes in the sincerity of the request that it becomes painful to deny it.

[TeMPOraL]

Indeed. It's the immediate assumption that since you're asking me, it must be important to you - otherwise you wouldn't be asking in the first place.

I want to be the kind of person that helps others where it matters, and here you are, asking, thus proving it matters. Refusing becomes really uncomfortable, so I'd rather go out of my way to make it possible for me to agree, or failing that, to help your underlying need as much as I can.

I realize now this is a form of typical mind fallacy - I wouldn't ask you for something if it wasn't really fucking important or I had any other option available, therefore I naturally assume that your act of asking already proves the request is very important to you.

I guess I just learned I'm a Guesser :).

[ozgung]

That's the really painful part. They ask you for something, you say 'yes' thinking it's important for the person, only to learn that it wasn't that important at all. It's like giving something that you don't want to give to someone that doesn't need it. Really annoying.

[entropicdrifter]

So how would you recommend communicating desires that are less strong than "important"?

I try to include the priority level of my requests inside the question itself, personally. As in, "Hey do you think you could xyz if it's not too much trouble? Not a high priority for me, but it would be convenient is all." Do you recommend something like that?

[duskdozer]

As another guesser, yes, basically something like that. Some kind of clarifying statement on how important it is to you.

[xyzal]

A uni pal with the samey attitude had a wonderful motto - "better to look stupid than to be stupid".

[jasondigitized]

Except a lot af askers will put you in an uncomfortable spot. No I don't want you and your family staying at my house while you are in town.

[elgenie]

Discomfort is present only if you suspect they're a Guesser and thus one of you has greatly misjudged the relationship and social context.

If you know or suspect they're an Asker the discomfort disappears because you say "No" and they say "OK, cool".

[lloydjones]

I think guessers agonise over HOW to say "No" in contexts like this, and what it says about them as people.

"Can my family and I stay for two weeks?".

Then:

"No." (looks cold and heartless; do I want to project cold and heartless? Will they hate me?).

"I'm so sorry but I'm not able to. The house is a mess and it's really small" (performative, hand-wringing reluctance; we both know I'm lying).

"I just don't like to share my environment" (most truthful; might look petty to those who don't understand the need for privacy to that degree).

[j1elo]

All this rings true, which brings me to this question: are Guessers just a bunch of Overthinkers?

[lloydjones]

They are, yes

[lloydjones]

Having said that, I have become a lot better at being direct these past few years, so I'd likely just say "I'm not able to, sorry. I can recommend some good hotels though".

[conductr]

Default No is fine, just go with it. That’s a huge ask. It was a 2 week stay, that’s a hell no unless you’re my nuclear family then maybe we can discuss it. Even then, there’s some family I don’t want as overnight guests and I usually put up in a nearby hotel when they visit.

No reason to feel guilty saying no when the ask is that large. I feel bad sometimes saying no to small things. Because it’s trivial on the surface and I don’t have a good reason for saying no except I just don’t want to do it. In any case, I like treating no as my default answer to everything then I have to be convinced to say yes (even if it’s a quick internal negotiation with myself).

If you’re consistent, the most abusive askers learn not to ask. The ones that ask with expectations of a yes, the ones that try to make you feel bad for saying no, those people go away. And that’s my ideal position, I’m only being asked for reasonable things so actually end up saying yes more often than I say no.

[caminante]

This is fairytale advice.

The askers who make you feel bad don't go away. They go up your org chart or get replaced by similar if your company culture tolerates it. You're the one who goes away or settles.

[robocat]

Why do you blame askers for how you feel?

You are responsible for your feelings and setting your boundaries.

Learning how to set boundaries is something most people learn as they mature. Yeah, not easy. I have especially noticed recently that some of my friends who are mums have learnt how to claim their own needs only after their kids have left home. Some people give too much.

Do you expect others to adivinate what your personal boundaries are?

Do you get frustrated when friends or family make the wrong assumptions?

If you have arseholes in your life that actually make you feel bad, then it is even more important to learn how set boundaries with them. If they don't respect the boundaries you set, or create conflict, then that is often very difficult to resolve.

I struggle with conflict avoiders because they have needs however they often act passive. Yet their hidden expectations remain, and their response if you fail to meet their expectations is often poor. One friend in particular also often guesses wrong to my detriment, instead of asking a simple question.

Do mind readers want others to read minds?

I strongly dislike passive people that blame others for their poor communications.

[conductr]

> I strongly dislike passive people that blame others for their poor communications.

Same. I struggle with the construct specifically because I think I am both an asker and a guesser. I do agree it exists however I can’t bucket myself into either side. The approach I choose to utilize at any given time is a contextual calculation. Do I have a strong opinion? Do I have a sufficient status to assert myself? Do I not care and just want to appease the other person? Do I intentionally want to stroke their ego?

But, choose an approach and use it as a tool. Miscalculations occur leading to outcomes I may not predict or prefer sometimes but that’s just a learning experience for me. I might adjust my internal algorithm for making that calculation in the future. I might decide I just don’t like interacting with that person, and that’s fine too. But I don’t blame anyone or expect them to change for me.

[caminante]

?

Did you mean to reply to someone else? I don't know where this is coming from as I didn't make these claims.

That said, your comment is disturbing.

It's a obnoxious to "strongly dislike" (read: hate) people who don't have resilient self-esteem. It lacks compassion. And if someone's bullying you, getting platitudes about "responsible for your feelings" and "boundaries" is useless.

[conductr]

Strongly dislike can also mean you just prefer to avoid those people or limit your interactions. It doesn’t mean hate.

If you want people like this to stop avoiding you, it’s an internal adjustment that needs to be made. That’s the responsibility for yourself part. Ignoring you is not hurting the other person one bit, actually they are benefiting from it as they skip dealing with your personality they dislike. It’s not to say they are biased against you, if you were more compatible they may change their stance without thinking about it. That wouldn’t happen if they hated you.

[t-3]

> Do mind readers want others to read minds?

It's not mind reading. It's basic empathy and respect. Expecting others to understand the norms of social behavior is not smart, but it is perfectly normal. Realizing that many people lack the ability to empathize or socialize politely and dealing with that is an unfortunate consequence of modern society making travel so easy. We're all mixed up and people from totally different cultures need to learn to deal with each other.

[entropicdrifter]

Then say that.

If someone goes on to say, "well you ruined my vacation" or something like that, they weren't asking at all, they were demanding and now they're bullying you about having boundaries to try to tear your boundaries down.

People who go out of their way to try to trample your explicitly stated boundaries are abusing you.

So say no, and if they don't take it well, create distance or tell them off. Avoiding conflict in this case is fully to your own detriment.

If, on the other hand, they do take it well, then guess what? They're an asker and are just fully exploring their options and it's no big deal to them that you said no.

[nkrisc]

Then just say, “No, that won’t work out for us.” Done.