[pjc50]

Another great example of this is British SF, especially 20th century Doctor Who and Blake's 7, vs American SF such as Star Wars/Trek. The British version can be much bleaker. And of course Red Dwarf, which doesn't translate at all into American. (There was a single pilot episode)

Edit: someone downthread mentioned Limmy's Show and Absolutely, to which I would add Burnistoun. Scottish humor is even more grimly fatalist than English.

[bevr1337]

> The British version can be much bleaker.

I think this one is a miss. TOS is inspired by _british_ naval history. Loss, fear, and failure are central to the show. In this era of TV, leading characters still had large flaws. Kirk is frozen by choice, Spock believes himself superior, Bones is a bigoted luddite. We as viewers get to see the pain this causes and their efforts to improve. It's wholly different than modern US television including all other ST media. Meanwhile, 70s Dr. Who is packed with automatic weapons fire and explosions and the formula has always been the Doctor knows best. (I am a huge fan of all the mentioned shows.)

For a good, modern example we can look at Ghosts (suddenly renamed "Ghosts UK" on my streaming services) and Ghosts US. The adaptation is agonizing. They stripped the important aspects of the story but kept a boy scout, toy soldier, and an interracial marriage. I found that telling.

[kstenerud]

I'd argue that DS9 was pretty stand-outish as well.

Worf continues to grapple with honor and restoring his family name, but he's too stubborn and proud to "debase" himself to defeat his political opponents.

Sisko refuses to accept that his fate is preordained, leading to one disaster after another every time he tries to go his own way. His loyalties are also split because of his status as Emissary, straining his relationship with both sides - not to mention the cultural issues.

Odo's pride is his constant downfall, and despite arguing that he's an island unto himself, he's miserably lonely and constantly pining.

Kira can't get over the trauma of her past, and although she does mellow out as the series goes on, when she gets triggered she goes on a rampage.

Dax's past hosts leave her in constant conflict, and she's usually trying desperately to appear in control, even when it's obvious she is not. In Jadzia it's particularly bad due to her issues with Curzon and Joran.

Nog is desperate for adult approval, and is in constant search of ways to gain respect, sometimes to disastrous results.

[GJim]

> Scottish humor is even more grimly fatalist than English.

Typified by Rab C Nesbitt. "An alcoholic Glaswegian who seeks unemployment as a lifestyle choice".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rab_C._Nesbitt

[vintermann]

Does the Office have heroes? It turned out to translate very well into American.

That Red Dwarf pilot was actually fine except for the bizarre choice of making Lister a hunk. Rimmer was fine, Holly was great.

I think there is a divide, but it isn't the Atlantic ocean.

[sanderjd]

As I just commented above, I do think The Office fundamentally maintained this foundation of comedic failure, but I also think it wouldn't have worked as well for American audiences (and indeed, wasn't working as well in the first season because of this) if not for the much larger emphasis on the likable-character love story with Jim and Pam. Maybe the upshot is that you can have a British edge in American comedy, as long as you sand it down a bit with some other element.

I see a similar kind of dynamic in Parks and Recreation, which is maybe a more culturally native take on the same kind of show, where Leslie is also ultimately a comedic failure, but with the edge sanded down by a certain amount of (mostly fruitless) competence and especially a seemingly inexhaustible well of enthusiasm and optimism that can't help but infect most of the people around her.

[red-iron-pine]

man it has nothing to do with American watchers.

the UK Office had fourteen (14) episodes. The US one had 201 episodes.

if you don't lean on things like inter-office romance there is nothing to put on screen.

the jim-pam thing was a direct riff on the tim-lucy interactions in the UK version, they just didn't, you know, have 100+ more episodes to build on it.

hell, you can even see when that ran out of steam in later seasons of the US version and they just start jamming celebrity guest stars in there

[sanderjd]

Fair!

But I also think it's correct that the US version is much softer-edged and that it would not have been so wildly popular were that not so.

I mean, there are harder edged comedies in the US, but they certainly aren't as popular. Would they be more so in England? I dunno, maybe. I suppose the US version of The Office was probably more popular across the pond than the homespun version as well?

[vintermann]

I have only seen very little of both, but I did get the distinct feeling that the US office was just plain better executed in many ways. I do remember that reading online forums, fans of UK Office scoffed at the US version at first, but that turned around.

[sanderjd]

True, after the first season. But I kind of question whether there is really a difference between "better executed" and the cultural difference we're discussing here. It's rare to have a show change tone from one season to the next, so it gives us a pretty unique way to look at what changed. I'm not sure what the "execution" issues were in the first season, except that it seemed (to me, as an American) more cold and self deprecating, where later it was warmer and more lovable. It had the same actors and sets and everything, but just different writing and changes to the personalities and storylines of the characters. But I think this might just be restating the differences between American and British humor that kicked this thread off?

[GJim]

> That Red Dwarf pilot was actually fine except for the bizarre choice of making Lister a hunk

I doubt the character of Ace Rimmer [what a guy!] would have translated at all.

[drdec]

Jim is the hero of the US version of the Office

He doesn't succeed so much at work but he does in his personal life

[Der_Einzige]

Robert California and Dwight were the clear heroes of the American version of the office.

[torginus]

Tbf, Star Trek TOS was also a sci fi show with an FX budget of two shoelaces and a pack of gum, and had to be carrier by great actors and writing, which it absolutely was. It's still my favourite Star Trek to this day.

I think the problem with how the US makes shows is that once something get successful, it gets a budget, which means the writing needs to appeal to a broader audience, which makes the whole thing blander.

I might be ignorant of US television pop culture, but I think, at least before the 90s, the UK produced much more memorable scifi shows (and even in the 90s, a lot of those US shows were secretly Canadian)

[dwd]

"Greetings"

The ending to Blake's 7 doesn't get any bleaker.

Red Dwarf was hilarious. Highly recommend the books, as they contain a lot of jokes that wouldn't translate to screen easily and would resonate with anyone who enjoys humour in the vein of Adams.

[furyofantares]

> And of course Red Dwarf, which doesn't translate at all into American.

The American version is Futurama (agreeing with your point and with the cultural differences discussed throughout this thread.)

[kstenerud]

Also mustn't forget Derry Girls. Uncle Colm is a classic.

“So I says to the taller fella, I says… although there weren’t more than an inch between ‘em…”

[t-3]

The American version of Shameless is in some ways bleaker than the original British version though.

[anthk]

Star Wars is not scifi. Star Trek has nothing to do with SW.