[MonkeyClub]

> I’m not willing to pay the apple tax any longer.

Problem here is that when you decide you no longer wish to pay the tax and want to exit the walled garden, you discover that there's a heap of functionality and convenience you'll have to let go, and add complexity and cost to your setup.

I actively avoided relying on iCloud even when it was the sane option, but many people that will feel like the walled garden is no longer suiting them will have to figure out ways to move files, emails, and (crucially) communication channels out of the ecosystem.

I think a large number of them will decide that it's not worth the hassle, and remain walled in. Which is the idea to begin with.

Sure, this is HN, and many will say "screw it, I'll Nextcloud my way out", but the genpop will remain within the gilded cage.

[lorddumpy]

Other than blue bubbles, you aren't leaving behind much nowadays. Apple is now lagging in general usability vs competitors, Siri as one glaring example.

[gunapologist99]

I think parent was referring to how challenging it is to move data (files like photos and other types of files, all of which are only accessible through apps with those specific capabilities) out of the Apple mobile ecosystem and to something non-Apple-ish.

This is still true even if you use a Mac as an intermediary (if you have one), which also implies that you're probably going to be using iCloud to sync those as well.

Bottom line: it's exceptionally difficult, even for tech-forward Apple-philes, to move your own data off your iPhone without actually going DEEPER into the Apple ecosystem, and Apple has been actively removing capabilities and neutering apps like NextCloud etc (always for 'privacy' or 'security' reasons) to make it MORE difficult to exfil your own data.

[alex1138]

I wasn't aware of that, that's pretty awful

[torben-friis]

>you discover that there's a heap of functionality and convenience you'll have to let go,

Cloud storage of pictures is not an issue as I do regular backups (we all should, we’re a false positive account termination away from crying otherwise).

What’s else is there? I’m not American so no iMessage, I struggle to find some other blocker.

[PlatoIsADisease]

>you discover that there's a heap of functionality and convenience you'll have to let go, and add complexity and cost to your setup.

Which is?

Every time I got an Apple product, it felt like a step back. They were late to widgets, late to AI. Their security is historically poor.

[throwaway2037]

    > Their security is historically poor.

For the desktop Mac, the base OS is essentially UNIX. It is much more secure by default than Microsoft Windows. For the mobile Mac (iOS), they are much preferred by large corporations when giving mobile phones to employees. Why? Security is much better than Android.

[dblohm7]

> For the desktop Mac, the base OS is essentially UNIX. It is much more secure by default than Microsoft Windows

Citation needed.

[mschuster91]

> Every time I got an Apple product, it felt like a step back. They were late to widgets, late to AI. Their security is historically poor.

It's not a bad thing to be late to AI. Most of it has shown to be a complete waste of time, money and resources.

As for poor security - this has got to be a joke, right? If anything, it's the Windows world that has a piss poor track record when it comes to security. Apple meanwhile, unless you're a terrorist or drug kingpin, no way the police can access a properly protected device.

[throwaway2037]

    > It's not a bad thing to be late to AI.

I remember thinking similar when JetBrains finally released LLMs integrated into their IDEs. I still don't love their integrated LLMs (too many silly suggestions that are simply syntax errors), but they were intentionally slow to release... to wait for some of the hype to blow over.

[PlatoIsADisease]

>it's not a bad thing to be late to AI. Most of it has shown to be a complete waste of time, money and resources.

This is just cognitive bias. If Apple was doing well with AI, you'd be praising it.

I've been having gemini look at my screen and add events to my calendar in 2 clicks.

Not to mention... I don't really have lots of faith in the people who don't see the value in AI. Its halved my programming costs if not more.

>As for poor security - this has got to be a joke, right? If anything, it's the Windows world that has a piss poor track record when it comes to security. Apple meanwhile, unless you're a terrorist or drug kingpin, no way the police can access a properly protected device.

You do you then. I need my device secured. I won't explain because it makes myself a target.

[isodev]

> here's a heap of functionality and convenience you'll have to let go

That's a very outdated point of view. All mobile ecosystems have practical feature parity. Convenience - that's a tricky one. With Apple stuff, you only have convenience if you're one of the bubble people who has their entire family and close friends in the Apple ecosystem. The reality outside that is that for every 1 iOS person, there are ~2 non iOS people they need to collaborate with and share stuff. Convenience has left the room a long time ago.

[chasing0entropy]

Oh how I wish that was universally true. Unfortunately ive experienced strong discrimination for green checks especially amongst boutique SMB servicers

[olyjohn]

Oh no I lost my conveniences! Cry me a river. Are people really so weak we can't even give up little things to show these fucking tech companies we don't like what they are doing?

[bethekidyouwant]

Wait, do you like what android and Microsoft are doing ?

[izzydata]

I want to see a movement of people using dumbphones or no phones at all. Anything you do on a smartphone can be done later on a desktop computer and a landline phone.

[Hackbraten]

I left the Apple ecosystem three years ago and have been daily driving a Linux-based phone ever since.

I’m still dealing with the fallout even today. There are tons of things in 2026 that you can no longer conveniently do without an Apple or Google mobile OS. For example, you’re out of all the group chats. No more WhatsApp, Telegram, or Signal. You can’t have those on a computer unless you have the account tethered to a phone.

[izzydata]

At least in the US people still only use SMS or a program that can be installed on a computer. I've never used WhatsApp, Telegram or Signal.

The only thing right now that I need my Android phone for is Duo Mobile authentication to log into my work computer.

[Hackbraten]

In Europe, where SMS used to be ridiculously expensive until the early 2010s, WhatsApp usage is absolutely endemic to the point that many businesses use it as their primary means of communication. It also has a quasi-monopoly on group messaging among friends and relatives.

[fsckboy]

your (and many others') argument is basically a "there are no atheists in foxholes" "I know, better than you, what you think" argument.

to me, no idea what you are talking about, i find the iphone/Apple experience to be a huge pita, all the time. i love unix for the swiss army knife of general purpose tools, not the many different garden walls with no garden inside.

the reason fsckboy doesn't leave is that all his bitches expect it, otherwise, gone in 60 seconds.