[jacquesm]

After the Israeli attack using pagers I think this is no longer paranoid at all.

The same goes for Chinese built cloud connected hardware, especially if it is grid connected, contains heater elements or batteries. Inverters, solar panels, vehicles, 3D printers, the list is endless and all of these are either potential fire starters or ways to destabilize the grid. Used maliciously the potential for misery is pretty large. All this crap that wants to connect to the cloud from a country where your average citizen has very limited access to the internet should give you pause: if the Chinese government thinks these connections are A-ok then they must see some advantage, especially if all the services are supposedly free of charge.

[eru]

> The same goes for Chinese built cloud connected hardware, [...]

It goes even more for American built or American influenced hardware.

[jacquesm]

Probably, yes, but this subthread is about war with China.

[jopsen]

Yeah, but until this whole Greenland debacle few people would imagine a war with the US.

[tehjoker]

China is much less likely to attack civilians. Don't project america and israel's way of war onto others. I would imagine part of their strategy is to win hearts ad minds. America just kills and kills and kills and wonders why we arent loved.

[ericmay]

Hmmm, what’s your sample size? Which wars has China been involved with and how have they treated civilians?

If Taiwan is invaded how do you think things will go if some number of Taiwanese people are defending the island mixed in with the local populace? Will the PLA call in an airstrike on an apartment with a sniper, or do you think they’ll go the hearts and minds route?

Part of the problem with your statement here, in my view, is you’re suggesting that the United States or Israel’s “way of war” is. It the default, or that in comparison to how other countries treat civilians may actually be more humane. I don’t think there’s a large sample size, or any particularly strong evidence to suggest how China will treat civilians.

And if you take into account how China has treated its own people, it’s not much better or worse than the United States. Maybe worst, actually, since Americans do have a legal right to protest.

[jabl]

> And if you take into account how China has treated its own people, it’s not much better or worse than the United States. Maybe worst, actually, since Americans do have a legal right to protest.

In "The Great Leap Forward" they killed tens of millions of their own. Granted, that was a long time ago, but while the current leaders may be wiser little suggests they aren't as ruthless.

[anonzzzies]

in case of war, you cannot know that; if they can blow up millions of phones or routers (setting houses on fire) or ignite cars? i agree with you that currently there would be no reason to even project such an image: better to win with trade and trinkets and dialog. I would say thats always the case but he ho.

[jacquesm]

> China is much less likely to attack civilians.

They were pretty happy to attack their own civilians, I see no reason to think why that would be different abroad.

> Don't project america and israel's way of war onto others.

I'm not projecting, merely being cautious. Besides, I have no illusion about either America or Israel doing something similar, especially not with their current upper cadre but this subthread is about China).

> I would imagine part of their strategy is to win hearts ad minds.

I would imagine it isn't. See also: partnering with Putin in the war with Ukraine.

> America just kills and kills and kills and wonders why we arent loved.

Yes, but they're not alone in that.

[eru]

> They were pretty happy to attack their own civilians, [...]

Yes.

> [...] I see no reason to think why that would be different abroad.

Well, you can look at the history of the PRC so far.

> I would imagine it isn't. See also: partnering with Putin in the war with Ukraine.

It's not all that much of a partnership. They are mostly squeezing Russia dry with cheap oil, and press territorial concessions out of the Tsar in the East, when he's busy in the West.

[NetMageSCW]

They are currently killing some of their own population in internal genocides. I don’t think they will treat others better.

[tehjoker]

No they aren't. Please provide evidence that doesn't link back to discredited hearsay by a US think tank.