[sky2224]

Let me ask: in what way have you been proven wrong?

Have you simply just seen it build a pretty CRUD application that you feel like would take you many hours to do on your own? If that's the case, then you really shouldn't be too worried about that. Being able to build a CRUD application is not what you're getting paid for.

If you've seen something that involves genuinely emulating the essence of a software engineer (i.e., knowing what users want and need), then I'd ask you to show me that example.

[atleastoptimal]

Knowing what users want and need is more the essence of a product manager, not a software engineer.

Software engineering is solving problems given a set of requirements, and determining the value, need and natural constraints of those requirements in a given system. Understanding users is a task interfaces with software engineering but is more on the "find any way to get this done" axis of value rather than the "here is how we will get it done" one.

I'd say what OP is referencing is that LLM's are increasingly adept at writing software that fulfills a set of requirements, with the prompter acting as a product manager. This devalues software engineers in that many somewhat difficult technical tasks, once the sole domain of SWEs is not commodified via agentic coding tools.

[veunes]

That's a dangerous distinction in the AI era. If you reduce your work to solving problems given a set of requirements, you put yourself in direct competition with agents. LLMs are perfect for taking a clear spec and outputting code. A "pure" engineer who refuses to understand the product and the user risks becoming just middleware between the PM and the AI. In the future, the lines between PM and Tech Lead will blur, and the engineers who survive will be those who can not only "do as told" but propose "how to do it better for the business"

[raw_anon_1111]

> Software engineering is solving problems given a set of requirements, and determining the value, need and natural constraints of those requirements in a given system

That’s the description of a mid level code monkey according to every tech company with leveling guidelines and easily outsourced and commoditized before the age of AI.

[atleastoptimal]

If it was easily outsourced and commoditized before AI how come mid level code monkeys were making 200k+ at FAANG

[raw_anon_1111]

And most of the 3 million developers working in the US aren’t working for a FAANG and will never make over $200K inflation adjusted. If you look at the comp of most “senior developers” outside of FAANG and equivalent, you’ll see that the comp has verb stagnant and hasn’t kept up with inflation for a decade.

I have personally given the thumbs down to two developers who came from a FAANG when it was clear that they were just code monkeys who had to have everything handed to them.

Have you looked at how hard it is for mid level code monkeys even from a FAANG to get a job these days? Just being able to reverse a b tree isn’t enough anymore.

FWIW, I did a 3.5 year stint at AWS until late 2023 Professional Services (full time with the same 4 year comp structure as software devs get). But made about 20% less and it was remote the full time I was there. and I’m very well aware of what software developers make.

I still work full time at a consulting company (cloud + app dev). And no FAANG doesn’t pay enough difference than what I make now to give up remote work in state tax free relatively low cost of living central Florida at 50 years old and grown (step)kids

[ativzzz]

Great, then we can use AI to solve the problems given a set of requirements, and spend more time thinking about what the requirements are by understanding the users.

PM and software development will converge more and more as AI gets better.

The best PMs will be the ones who can understand customers and create low-fidelity prototypes or even "good enough" vibe coded solutions to customers

The best engineers will be the ones who use their fleet of subagents to work on the "correct" requirements, by understanding their customers

At the end of the day, we are using software to solve people's problems. Those who understand that, and have skills around diving in and navigating people's problems will come out ahead