[cyberax]

How exactly is Vue better? It just introduces more artificial states, as far as I see.

My major problem with React is the way it interacts with async processes, but that's because async processes are inherently tricky to model. Suspense helps, but I don't like it. I very much feel that the intermediate states should be explicit.

[docmars]

I think it's a matter of taste and preference mostly, but I like Vue's overall design better. It uses JS Proxies to handle reactive state (signals, basically) on a granular level, so entire component functions don't need to be run on every single render — only what's needed. This is reflected in benchmarks comparing UI libraries, especially when looking at table row rendering performance.

Their setup (component) functions are a staging ground for wiring up their primitives without you having to worry about how often each call is being made in your component function. Vue 3's composition pattern was inspired by React with hooks, with the exception that variables aren't computed on every render.

And I agree about Suspense, it's a confusing API because it's yet-another-way React forces you to nest your app / component structure even further, which creates indirection and makes it harder to tie things together logically so they're easier to reason about. The "oops, I forgot this was wrapped with X or Y" problem persists if a stray wrapper lives outside of the component you're working on.

I prefer using switch statements or internal component logic to assign the desired state to a variable, and then rendering it within the component's wrapper elements -- states like: loading, error, empty, and default -- all in the same component depending on my async status.

[cyberax]

I tried proxy-based approaches before (in Solid) and I _also_ had a lot of problems with async processes. The "transparent" proxies are not really transparent.

I understand that mixing declarative UI with the harsh imperative world is always problematic, but I think I prefer React's approach of "no spooky action at a distance".

As for speed, I didn't find any real difference between frameworks when they are used correctly. React can handle several thousand visible elements just fine, and if you have more, you probably should work on reducing that or providing optimized diffing.

For example, we're using React for 3D reactive scenes with tens of thousands of visible elements. We do that by hooking into low-level diffing (the design was inspired by ThreeJS), and it works acceptably well on React.Native that uses interpreted JS.

[docmars]

I'm with you there -- I use React more than Vue day-to-day since most companies reach for it before anything else, so it's ubiquitous. Most devs simply don't have a choice unless they're lucky enough to be in the driver seat of a greenfield project.

I find React perfectly acceptable, it's just global state management and a few flaws with its lifecycle that repeatedly haunt me from time to time. (see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46683809)

Vue's downside is not being able to store off template fragments in variables. Every template/component must be a separate component file (or a registered component somewhere in the tree), so the ease of passing around HTML/JSX conditionally with variables is impossible in Vue. You can use raw render functions, but who wants to write those?

JSX being a first-class citizen is where React really shines.

[docmars]

I forgot to mention in my other reply, but if you find yourself needing to render a massive list performantly, check out TanStack Virtual. It's a godsend!