[Brian_K_White]

One of them is legit a saint and the other almost as much. They absolutely are role models, and the way they are talked about now is exactly a lesson in the problem. If more people emulated them, the world would be a much better place.

[queenkjuul]

I can't help but disagree with you 100%. Brilliant technicians aren't automatically role models, and both men have plenty of characteristics that shouldn't be emulated.

Their positive influence on open source is real; that doesn't make them, as people, role models.

[Brian_K_White]

Technical abilities are nothing more than big muscles. No one with any depth at all would mean anything like that when they say things like "role model" and "saint", and no one with a lick of sense would assume anyone else would.

[queenkjuul]

Forgive me, i figured it obvious that anyone using the words "Saint" and "Eric S Raymond" in a flattering light would have neither depth nor sense

[tptacek]

If you're talking about Eric S. Raymond here, I'm having trouble not believing that this is just bait. Even in the Linux community, purely on Linux terms he's a problematic and polarizing figure.

I'm annoyed at the arc these discussions invariably take into Raymond's backstory or whatever, because I think CATB fails objectively, on its own merits (or lack thereof) and we don't need to wade into this other stuff. But if we're having the discussion: seems like kind of a wild statement to say he's any reasonable person's role model.

[nomdep]

You have held a very public grudge against him for at least two decades. Don’t pretend now that you can be objective about anything concerning him.

[tptacek]

What "grudge" would I hold against him? If you mean I've long believed (like a huge portion of people who actively work on Linux, unlike me) that his output is enormously overrated, guilty as charged, I guess? It sounds like you're just accusing me of not having changed my mind about him.