[cush]

The number of comments in here slandering the developer’s morality for picking locks is actually pretty surprising for a site literally called Hacker News. Every day there’s a story on the front page of some grey/white-hat showing off an exploit they found to infiltrate a site we all use. It’s an odd double standard.

[raincole]

> the number of comments

Two of them in total, if I counted right.

[cush]

Har har. At the time I commented it was the top comments and a few replies

[dormento]

Still astounding in a place where "hackers" congregate.

[fragmede]

Not really. Two is not a large number of comments. Turn on showdead in your profile and see the dreck that most users never see.

[stackghost]

This place lost its hacker lustre at least 10 years ago.

I registered my first account in 2011 or so and even then it had plenty of "pro-big corporate" energy here.

[daveguy]

It's a site that was founded and run by venture capitalists. It always had "pro-big corporate" energy. If for nothing else, because that's one of the potential exit strategies.

[stackghost]

I know but there was a "hacker spirit" undercurrent that's been diminished of late, I feel

[hk__2]

Meh, when I registered in 2012 people were writing the same thing.

[figers]

If it lost it 10 years ago... where's website that still has the hacker ethos?

[johnfn]

But that isn't what "Hacker" means. Take it from pg, who named the site, 15 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1648199

> In the sense of the word that means people who write code, not people who break into things

[russelg]

Sure, but in this case they definitely are a hacker still since they did write code to achieve this.

[johnfn]

The comment I am responding to says that people should be amenable to lockpicking because it’s “hacker” news. But he’s using the wrong meaning of hacker. So the argument doesn’t hold.

[BrandoElFollito]

Picking locks is a tradition in hacking. So morality is already off the table. Except if this is to save a cat - the offical reason for lockpicking in the 90s.

Now, the robot is hardly something you put together between dessert and coffee. Someone building this must have a live for hardware and lockpicking is just a pretext.

And think about the cats!

[Alive-in-2025]

Does anyone even know about the classic MIT Guide to Lockpicking? Back in the day, it was so entertaining to come across this while in grad school and enjoying reading it instead of working on actual work.

We are made to be technical tinkerers, playing with tech, seeing if sending that input to that program will crash it. I see it not as a moral issue but as a technical skill, to understand how to work with systems, explore what doesn't work. That way you gain skills in how to make things work better.

[charcircuit]

>Every day there’s a story on the front page of some grey/white-hat showing off an exploit they found to infiltrate a site we all use.

This is not true.

[pixl97]

I mean, you tend to see this everywhere.

Hopefully these people do realize that a lock is a promise saying "you belong to a society, be nice". They do very little beyond that, especially these days with small, powerful powertools.

[sandworm101]

>> these days with small, powerful powertools.

Maybe when attacking a padlock on a highschool locker, or the door on an amazon-basics "safe", but try attacking something not primarily designed to be cheap/light. Try cracking the door on a money safe at a substantial business, a safe approved by an insurance provider for the storage of large sums, Even an ATM will resist power tools far longer than it will take the cops to show up.

[TeMPOraL]

> Even an ATM will resist power tools far longer than it will take the cops to show up.

It'll also spit in your face with a paint that's incredibly hard to wash off.

[pipes]

I "belong" to a society? That suggests that a group owns me. Hrm I'm probably nit picking, but the idea of a society owning me isn't something I agree with. Also I'm free to leave.

[scubbo]

This is linguistic nonsense on a par with disliking the phrase "my spouse" because it implies ownership. You can easily talk of "my country" or "my university" without claiming ownership, just as one can talk of "a sense of belonging" or of "belonging to a club" without feeling owned. Words have several meanings.

[pipes]

Yet, if I said my wife belonged to me I think I would get a few rebukes.

[cush]

Why not just have a conversation in good faith?

Instead of assuming the person you're chatting with is talking about slavery, and then when they clarify they're not talking about slavery, and you saying that it could be about slavery, you could just as easily say, "oh I misunderstood you". Sometimes humans have misunderstandings. Languages are messy. Just let it go.

[Dilettante_]

They didn't misunderstand, they challenged the phrasing. Some people believe that words have power and language matters(or at least are entertaining the idea).

[pipes]

I haven't made any assumptions at all, reread what I said, then reread the replies. First one is a personal attack about being libertarian (an assumption), second one starts off as an attack too. I expressed a preference, in a light hearted way, hence the "hrm...". I come here for good faith debate and I'm genuinely grateful for it (I've said as much in other comments).

[burkaman]

Right, because that's a completely different sentence with a completely different meaning.

[scubbo]

Yes, that's exactly my point. "X belongs to Y" and "Y owns X" and "X is Y's <noun>" are not perfectly synonymous - despite considerable overlap, they have different shades of meaning.

[sandworm101]

>> the idea of a society owning me isn't something I agree with.

Your agreement is irrelevant. Have you registered for selective service? Paid taxes? Have a drivers license? Check youtube for "sovcit traffic stop" to see what happens when people think they can live independent from the rest of society. The Amish must obey traffic laws just like everyone else.

>> Also I'm free to leave.

Nope. Many an american has fled to canada to avoid taxes/draft/jail. They are caught eventually. Citizenship is not property. You cannot just set it aside when you dont agree with its obligations. There is a process for leaving. It isnt short, easy, cheap or in any way guaranteed.

[TeMPOraL]

Would phrasing it as "your parents sold you into society" be more accurate for you?

[stackghost]

You live in a country with laws. You pay taxes. You can be put in prison. They both literally and figuratively own your ass.

You're free to leave only if another country accepts you which is not a given.

[idiotsecant]

Cue an entire thread of people launching 'memberberry picking expeditions over a couple comments.

[schmuckonwheels]

You must be mistaken.

This site stopped being Startup News just like Facebook became the 'metaverse' overnight.

[keybored]

The title of this website is literally in another sense than white/grey/black hacker.

[ghurtado]

Originally the word "hacker" made no distinction between the two meanings. This site is pretty old, so you're right, it was intended in the original "Kevin Mitnik" sense (the original hacker, who ironically would fall outside of the modern definition)

The modern acception focused on online computer security came much later. That meaning is neither the one used in the name of this site nor the one that would be relevant to this conversation.

To summarize: today's hackers are also yesterday's hackers, but yesterday's hackers may or may not be modern hackers.

[pohl]

Mitnik is in no sense “the original hacker”. Ever heard of Cap’n Crunch?

[edgineer]

The Guinness book of world records listed Kevin as the world's most notorious hacker, not the first.

They did retract they record for its lack of objectivity.

[Rebelgecko]

Lock picking falls under jargon files definition of "hack" imo

[f1shy]

Lockpicking can also be in that colors, AFAIK.

[cloudfudge]

If I never hear nerds bicker over the various meanings of the word 'hacker' again, it will be too soon.

[johnfn]

Literally from the horse's mouth, 15 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1648199

> In the sense of the word that means people who write code, not people who break into things

It would be like if you were going over a list of pros and cons and when you got to the cons some guy was like "wow, you work with criminals, huh?" Then you tell him not that sort of con and he says "yeah, typical nerd bickering".

C'mon.

[cloudfudge]

And yet it still isn't any more interesting to argue about.

[keybored]

How do you know if a nerd doesn’t care what you’re talking about? They’ll tell you.

[wat10000]

Definition 7 from the Jargon File:

"One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations."

[_0ffh]

I went to hacker events where someone would sell lock-picking tools and practice locks like it's the most natural thing in the world.

[keybored]

Mr. judge I’m not a black hat hacker. I’m a person, one of such nature who enjoys creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations.

Pick a fight with a room full of pedants snicker snicker.