[_heimdall]

In my opinion these types of problems always boil down to fear. When a person or people are afraid they act erratically. At a large scale it often leads to the wrong type of leader stepping up to use that fear for their own gain, in many cases they pull the majority together by pointing at a smaller group and claiming they're the cause of all the problems.

The only reliable solution I know to that is for people to be principled. People need to know what core fundamentals matter to them and they need to stick to those guns consistently.

Today it seems like we've lost that almost entirely. Most people hold strong views on certain topics or policies but they aren't driven by principles, that becomes clear when their strong opinions contradict themselves at a pretty fundamental level.

There are plenty of symptoms of the problem and I'm oversimplifying here, but if I could wave a magic wand and change one thing it would be to restore principles back in the average person. I honestly don't care what their principles are, I don't think that's the point, we simply can't move in a good direction without people knowing what matters to them.

[AnimalMuppet]

You stopped too soon in your analysis. Why is there so much fear? Why is there more than, say, the 1980s? The 1970s? (Or was there this much fear then, too, and we just don't remember it that way?)

Is it basically economic? We had this amazing economic ride from 1945 through the early 1970s, and that gave a view of what life could be like that permeated society and gave hope, and the hope continued long past the growth. Now people are realizing that the hope is not likely to happen to them. Is the fear caused by realizing that the hope is in danger? (That hope is in danger in another way, too. People are realizing that, even if they get better economic circumstances, past a certain point prosperity is still kind of empty.)

Or is the fear manufactured? Is it part of the propaganda? Are we being made to feel afraid, so that we can have a crisis of democracy? So that more non-democratic leaders can take over?

Or is it something else?

[mikkupikku]

Emergent phenomenon, from the intrinsic dynamics of cable news. The medium is the message, and this medium requires around the clock 24/7 attention getting, which changes the way stories are reported, regardless of what the stories are. Internet news inherited much of this, and newspapers too then adapted for constant rather than daily/weekly updates.

[_heimdall]

I'm not claiming why people or afraid today, whether its manufactured, or by whom. Honestly those are interesting details to the story but not fundamentally important in the middle of the fear crisis.

[AnimalMuppet]

If the fear is being manufactured, I'd say that is definitely important in the middle of the fear crisis.

[_heimdall]

If it can specifically help to reverse course on the level of collective fear, yeah that may help. Though there is the risk there that high levels of fear may lead people to lash out at anyone singled out as the cause of panic or fear.

I'd argue that dealing with the fear itself is more important, and safer, in the moment. Knowing and understanding the cause is more useful, and safer to deal with, after the panic or fear has subsided.

[AnimalMuppet]

How are you going to get it to subside, without dealing with the cause? If the fear is being manufactured, you aren't going to get out of the crisis until whoever is causing it relents and stops, or until you block it.

I mean, you could say "we're going to deal with this by teaching people not to be afraid of this stuff", but why not do interrupt the source as well?

[_heimdall]

Interrupting the source can work, I'm not saying that wouldn't help. I'd liken it to trauma care, sometimes you do need to just stop the bleeding first.

My point there was only that its risky. I see the risk on two fronts, in the moment its hard to recognize the root cause and there are some people who will take advantage of the fear to point "the mob", as it were, at the wrong cause for their own gain.

[microtonal]

The only reliable solution I know to that is for people to be principled.

...and educated.

Today it seems like we've lost that almost entirely.

We replaced it by egoism. Through decades of neoliberalism we are taught to only care about ourselves, not our communities. Making money and buying things became our main philosophy. It does not matter if you are actually well-off, everyone is in a race with everyone else.

As a result, we don't stand up against injustice as long as it does not affect us much. And the egoism makes everything seem like a zero-sum game, if an immigrant gets a house paid by taxes, then I must be losing something.

This is also what permeates current US policy - you can only win if someone else loses. In this mindset it is not possible to have cooperation that is mutually beneficial.

I hope we can heal as mankind and take care of each other again.

[_heimdall]

For sure, I agree education helps and could be considered a prerequisite to someone really be principled to begin with. It takes wisdom to learn what matters to you and to see patterns behind any particular topic of the day, and wisdom only comes about through education and experience.

I am always torn a bit on education as a goal though. I don't like centralized education, it makes it much to easy to lead to similar problems we have today when any small group of people can decide what and how every person is required to be taught.

We need people educated by their own choice, going down whatever paths they find interesting and learning from that journey. Its my belief that people are generally good, and given the time and space to find their own core principles, and a Democratic type of system where our voices can be heard, things will generally work out for the best in the end. I'll always take the collective opinion of principled individuals over the strongly held views of the small few in power at the time.