[AndreyK1984]

Can someone tell me three things, please! - is ICE illegal or immoral ? Or it is a good tool used wrong ? - can people vote and make ICE stronger / weaker depending on their choice ? - are non registered people breaking the law or not ? Is it basically bad law or bad people ? I am sure US is republic and democracy together, but everyone here pretends ICE is a tool of dictatorship and should be stopped immediately.

If you ask about my personal opinion - it is an internal problem of US citizens, and they need to fix it.

[rootusrootus]

> Or it is a good tool used wrong

This. ICE serves a necessary function. It is intentionally being wielded with malice. The target is not immigrants, they are just the face of the brawl, the real target is democratic voters.

> can people vote and make ICE stronger / weaker depending on their choice

This question is easy to answer. The citizens could easily vote in a new president in 2028 who defunded ICE altogether. We already know that cutting funds is way easier than granting them.

[krapp]

>The citizens could easily vote in a new president in 2028 who defunded ICE altogether.

You think that after two more years of this regime that any such candidate would be allowed anywhere near whatever pretense of an electoral system still exists?

I need you to understand that the United States is already no longer a democratic republic in anything but name. The system of government you're assuming will fix the mess will have been entirely dismantled by then. The time to fix this within the system was in 2024.

[rootusrootus]

That rhetoric is popular online, but I have not heard any convincing argument for how it plays out in practice.

[krapp]

Your ability to be convinced by arguments, or refusal thereof, is not an objective measure of the likelihood of future events.

If anyone had described to you the timeline of this administration from 2024 to now, prior to it happening, you probably would have dismissed it as ridiculous. Yet here we are, this is already normal.

The way it plays out is they have two more years to lay groundwork and entrench their power, dismantle systems and burn alliances which will take decades to rebuild, declare martial law because someone twitched at an ICE goon the wrong way, and possibly start a war in Europe, and no one stops them because people like you think they'll just get to vote the baddies out and everything will just go back as it was.

I hope you're right, I don't think you are but I hope you are. But if you think everyone is just engaging in "online rhetoric" then I think you're naive.

[rootusrootus]

> Your ability to be convinced by arguments, or refusal thereof, is not an objective measure of the likelihood of future events.

Okay but that just makes both of us crazy speculators.

> If anyone had described to you the timeline of this administration from 2024 to now

I would have said it was a plausible but terrible misuse of the executive branch's authority that I hoped not to see. After the first administration, I definitely would not call it ridiculous. Basically everything he has done so far is exercising power we've been delegating to the executive branch.

> declare martial law

That's easier said than done. And even using actual law, in the form of the insurrection act, would not give him the power to undermine elections. This country had elections during the civil war, and we are not quite there yet.

> But if you think everyone is just engaging in "online rhetoric" then I think you're naive.

I am trying to be charitable. A lot of the rhetoric is over-the-top spinning everything for maximum doom. What is really happening is bad enough without trashing our credibility through easily disprovable statements.

And sure, maybe I'm just naive. We should chat about it again in late January 2029.

[AndreyK1984]

Thank you all for detailed answers! As I see, if all goes well the problem will be solved in two years (more or less).

Again, no comments regarding if it is good to hunt "illegal aliens" and kick them away - US citizens must decide this themselves.