[pfisch]

idk, If I was in control of a country in the EU I would realize, unfortunately for pretty much everyone on the planet, that we have made a drastic miscalculation by relying on the US so heavily for defense.

However, that is not something that can be reversed meaningfully in less than a decade. So for now, I would play the long game like Germany while working to get the EU to build up a military force large enough to significantly reduce our dependence on the US.

[johnzim]

It's not as if the US hasn't repeatedly requested that European nations invest in their defense for the past few decades.

Looking at it dispassionately as a European living in the US, if you wanted to foment the sort of mistrust many Americans have of Europe, I don't think you could have created a more invidious policy.

[trymas]

Even though European defence investment was lacklustre - don't forget that those requests between the lines mean to buy US defence tech and still be dependent on US in time of war.

Countries that have actually invested have same problems - dependance on US tech and their unreliable leadership. Those who had stockpiles of American weapons (or even components from US in mostly domestically made weapons) - still need to coordinate with US (cannot find in the moment, but I definitely read about this, when Sweden couldn't send weapons due to American components inside).

France is mostly (totally??) independent in the matter of defence from America - and Americans hate French for that. America really hated de Gaulle's wish of military and political independence of Europe from America. But he was unsuccessful in his vision, essentially building this status quo: "Americans will military bases in European backyards, Europeans will be tame good boys and Americans will provide security with a pinky promise", Truman Doctrine - I believe.

(West) Germany's extreme pacifism is also thanks to USAs efforts to not repeat Versaille treaty's failures and rise of new Hitler-like figure.

> if you wanted to foment the sort of mistrust many Americans have of Europe, I don't think you could have created a more invidious policy

Sounds like something from Project 2025 propaganda preparations.

I will remind you that only USA triggered NATO Article 5 and whole Europe came to help in their now infamous "war on terror", even including countries that weren't in NATO at the time (though obviously were aligned and wanted to be there) and lost lives there.

I would maybe have believe this statement if current administration would have gone 110% into isolationism, as their election shouts where "America First". At the time it was phrased as: they won't help Ukraine, NATO, or any other organisation/action happening outside USA. Now it means: USA will take anything by force whether you like it or not.

Also you want to eat your cake and have it too. You still want to have tens of thousands of soldiers and your bases in EU, you want EU countries to invest in your defence sector (but pwease pwease don't get too independent, otherwise Uncle Sam will get angwy), though you want to freaking go to war against NATO countries, because Amerika stronk. Also not forget very close cooperation and access given to local military bases for Americans from European counterparts.

Many NATO countries in Europe are steadily investing in defence for 10+ years (mostly from 2014 Crimea annexation) and many more waking up with 2022 total war on Ukraine from ruzzia.

I want European part of NATO to be stronger and more decisive, actions are happening, but Europe still has democracy, not a some weird authoritarian kakistocracy with oligarchical flavour.

So let's not pretend that Europe should pay for USA's wish for total hegemony, worldwide policing and global reserve currency. Europeans lost their lives in USAs wars and enabled this USA vision of global hegemony for last 70+ years.

NB: also since last year all countries are spending at least a minimum: https://www.statista.com/statistics/584088/defense-expenditu...

Also expenditure is growing like crazy, especially since 2022 total war in Ukraine: https://www.nato.int/content/dam/nato/webready/documents/fin... .

And I believe there were budget plans since 2014 for all countries to reach 2% (i.e. well before trump took office): https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/introduction-to-nato/defe... - with commitments to increase spending to 5% in the next decade.

These rambles prove to me yet again - in what information bubble USA lives, which is dictated by geriatric 80-year-olds still living 20+ years in the past inside their heads and transferred by ignorant talking heads of 24h news cycle.

[terminalshort]

It can be reversed in a year. In 1941 the US increased its production of tanks by 7x. In 1942 it increased production again by 4x. This idea that building industry takes decades needs to die a painful death.

[pfisch]

You're really comparing scaling up manufacturing of a 70 year old tank to building modern weaponry?

That is beyond ridiculous.

[onemoresoop]

The US is a large country with plenty of resources.

[terminalshort]

There's a certain large European country with plenty of resources that is pretty famous for scaling its tank production just a couple years before the US did.