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by plastic-enjoyer 153 days ago
>In both of these cases (and in others), the harms are there for children and adults, but it’s only children who get banned.

>I don’t use TikTok and it’s no skin off of my back if it gets banned. Banned or not, though, I don’t see a reason to ban it only for children. It doesn’t seem to be more harmful for them. They don’t seem to be using it lots more than adults.

>If you’re going to ban TikTok because it’s harmful or for geopolitical reasons, fine. But ban it universally; if we’re not willing to do that, stop pretending that a child-only ban is principled. A child-only ban is what you do when you want to do something but can’t think of anything better to do, and you don’t want to impact voters.

There are now enough statistics to prove that social media has a negative impact on the mental health of users, especially children and adolescents. Even Meta has kept a study on this topic under wraps. What OP is doing here is putting adults and children on the same level and saying that what applies to children must also apply to adults. The difference, however, is that we as adults have a responsibility toward children. Children enjoy special protection in society and, for good reason, are subject to limited criminal liability. We do this because we assume that children belong to a vulnerable and easily influenced group, and lack the mental and moral maturity to adequately assess their actions. We assume that adults have the necessary mental and moral maturity to adequately assess the consequences of their own actions, which is why they are granted more rights but also more responsibilities than children. OP does not reveal any contradiction or other ‘gotcha’ moment here, unless he generally takes issue with the relationship of responsibility between adults and adolescents.

3 comments

> There are now enough statistics to prove that social media has a negative impact on the mental health of users

Yes, but the point of the article is compared to what.

I feel negative after 15 minutes on twitter (depending on the topic, of course), but I feel far less negative than if I'd tried getting similar info from legacy sources (10x slower, and with 10x the suits, lipstick, and ads).

The point isn't that social media are supposed to make users feel good, but that they're important information tools - a window to the world - and the alternatives - ignorance or less diverse more bloated sources - aren't the answer.

The solution isn't banning; it's the same as what we do with every single other useful but potentially dangerous thing: fires, pools, beaches.. - education. Perhaps secondary school could have modules for how to responsibly use social media, set and manage expectations/anxiety, when to use it (some people recommend not before sleep etc).

Banning only removes upside and delays downside. Education lessens/removes downside altogether with full upside.

While I am prone to be against bans, I am curious how to deal with the biological problem of supernormal stimulus:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernormal_stimulus

It is broadly accepted that you cannot educate a toddler or even young child to expect them to be able to self control all the time due to lack of brain development (frontal cortex or what have you).

But what if a significant portion or maybe even all humans’ brains never get to the point where all supernormal stimuli can be educated against, and it is just an inherent mechanical weakness?

Is that not just slippery slope? If supernormal stimuli are broadcast across a population and we are helpless to prevent mind control then sure we should probably ban that. If the argument then is “yes but that’s exactly what TikTok is”. Well the US did actually manage to muster the political will to ban that for everyone. Of course it’s not being enforced because of reasons but it does seem like if the population believes they are being mind controlled the will is there.
> I feel far less negative than if I'd tried getting similar info from legacy sources (10x slower, and with 10x the suits, lipstick, and ads).

The data doesn't back this up - especially since legacy sources aren't algorithmically games with tricks to get you to spend way more than 15 minutes.

Yes, this is a classic example of a programmer (or data scientist in this case) believing their expertise in one areas generalises to topics which they don't fully understand.
Only adjunct professors can chime in?
The great thing about the internet for now is that anyone can chime in, but anytime you find yourself wiring something like "I don't see why", it may be time for a deeper dive to see if the why is well founded.
> There are now enough statistics to prove that social media has a negative impact on the mental health of users, especially children and adolescents

Can you share some? All of these statistics I've seen seem to establish correlation, not causation.

Is there a statistic for anything that proves causation? I’m trying to think how you would do that as a number and not a logical argument
I suppose "studies" or something similar might have been a better word.