[reincarnate0x14]

I'm happy this person found a way to live that's meaningful to him, but I grew up as a farmer. You're coming back to something we've known a long time. If a god is what let's you get there, then good, let god keep you whole.

But this is what the classics of stoicism (in the literal sense of both) have been telling us the whole time. We make our own meaning, and money isn't it. Go and grow things. Raise things. Build things.

Civilization is when men plant trees in whose shade they will never sit.

[NoBeardMarch]

It's honestly quite interesting to me how this presents. I mean: Yes, people should ultimately pursue some form of happiness, but for me that happiness is genuinely doing software engineering work, and I do not think we should demonize the 9-5 office-job. In my opinion it gets too much flack, and the "move to a farm"-dream becomes some kinds of utopic ideal, which I really do not believe it is. I have worked much heavier, more manual jobs in my life and they do not provide more happiness. If anything, they provide less comfort.

For some, the benefits for society are not as immediately visible as a farmer producing potatoes or corn which he/she can touch with their own hands, but in my personal view my job positions me as a not insignificant cog in a gigantic machine which has genuine benefits for society (and some negative influences, yes).

Some red flags in the linked article. Spirituality and barefoot running, which I do not believe is very evidence based to recommend. My opinion is that anyone working a software engineering office 9-5 should also always be doing strength resistance training and some cardio every single week. This should provide the health benefits needed to survive in what is a sedentary job.

[reincarnate0x14]

If I can give you any advice as a likely older man to a younger man, no bias intended, happiness is fleeting. Look for fulfillment. I personally find religious apologies to be empty but if they get you to a good place, fuck it, I can't argue with everyone over methods. If your job is fulfilling, or enables you to do fulfilling things in your other time, there is no shame in that.

There is a visceral spiritualism to working with your hands, but if you can achieve that with coding, great! Live a life you would want if money didn't matter.

[NoBeardMarch]

I generally do not pursue happiness, I try to pursue purpose. Life is peaks and valleys, the only permanence being that nothing really persists.

Writing code is also working with your hands. It produces real world effects which even if you cannot observe them directly still provide societal benefit: The "impact" of this can in many cases be much larger than a manual job.

[ggm]

I think your leading sentence is a false Dichotomy for many people. Pursuit of happiness doesn't imply being in a state of bliss all the time. Stoics are allowed to be happy too.

[judahmeek]

> Pursuit of happiness doesn't imply being in a state of bliss all the time.

Sure, correcting "pursuit of happiness" to "pursuit of contentment/fulfillment/purpose" is pedantic, but it makes me happy ;p

It's also a connotative reminder to ourselves & others to seek rewards with longer time horizons

[jakupovic]

You're getting good advice and the best you can do is say I know better. Learn to be humble and listen to elders.

[stavros]

I've been a farmer and I've been a software developer, and farming was just a "this is work that puts money on the table", whereas software development is what I really find fulfilling. I entirely agree with you that it's idolized too much (together with carpentry), and yes, do whatever makes you happy, for some people it's one, for some it's the other.

[kcexn]

The "move to a farm" dream seems like it would be nice if one didn't have any financial stress. So, more like retire to a farm.

[hrimfaxi]

You can retire there but just don't buy the farm before you do!

[dyauspitr]

For me atleast, being busy walking around and driving tractors alone all day is infinitely more rewarding than working with a group of people on minutia that takes constant collaboration.

[ironbound]

Same I think you can get purpose from other areas with basing your survival on it. It's very easy to have a hands on hobby like knitting, car mechanic's, growing tomatoes if there's a problem of being "disconnected from the world"

[lukan]

"Spirituality and barefoot running, which I do not believe is very evidence based to recommend."

I highly recommend both.

But as just as there are lots of cults and scams in the spirituality world, just starting to run barefeet will likely hurt you very quickly.

No ideas about studies here, but they would need to include a lot of factors to be meaningful for generalisation. For example if you did not do running around barefeet as a kid at all, your bones might not be strong enough if you start as a adult. And then you have to be extra careful to develope more muscles there.

Also where you run matters a lot. Basically, anything soft is nice. Gras, a sandy beach, forest tracks. Running on snow is also nice (for some time). But once your skin is stronger, also gravel roads can be fun. Just not flat asphalt.

I can just say running barefoot gives me immense joy and helps my body be in good shape. Strong flexible feet act like a shock absorbers for all the other joints in your body btw.

[NoBeardMarch]

If it makes you happy, then by all means go for that. I am glad for you. What is generally recommended and evidence based is a different matter. I will not pretend to be an expert on it: All I have done is a cursory glance on pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

For me, my joy has come from strength resistance training and my discovery of the stairmaster. The latter was a very fun find! It's a really strenuous exercise which makes you strong for hiking in the wilderness and I feel like I do not need to do it for as long as the treadmill which I hate.

[lukan]

"What is generally recommended and evidence based is a different matter."

Yeah, but wikipedia for example says this, which matches my experience:

"Scientific research into the practice of running barefoot or with minimalist shoes is increasingly suggesting that it increases intrinsic foot muscle size and strength, but it has been limited to healthy individuals and further research is required to reach definite conclusions."

If you are healthy and do it right, it seems beneficial.

So it is smart to not recommend it in general for everyone as most ain't healthy, nor do take the time to do things right.

And same with spirituality, it is just such a broad term. I believe there are quite some studies that show positive effects of mindful meditation for example. But sure, you won't find positive studies about health benefits of astrology or homeopathy if that is what spirituality means to you.

[NoBeardMarch]

Interesting. I am certainly very open to my initial broad sweep being incorrect on barefoot running. I would want to dig much deeper into it than Wikipedia alone though, even though its a serviceable source.

[lukan]

Sure, Wikipedia alone ain't trustable.

But more on the matter, I am not so much a advocate of running barefoot, but doing anything barefeet if possible. Dancing is so much more enjoyable for me like this, so many more moves possible without shoe restrictions, but it depends of course on the setting and place.

(Now I will go out and do some rock climbing barefeet)

[neuralkoi]

There's a story about Diocletian, the emperor who guided Rome through one of the most turbulent periods of its history, and later voluntarily abdicated and retired to his villa. When they begged him back to resolve some conflicts that had arisen he stated:

"If you could see the cabbages I have planted here with my own hands, you surely would never have thought to request this."

[arethuza]

Worth noting that Diocletian's retirement "villa" was actually a massive palace that still forms the heart of the city of Split in Croatia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocletian%27s_Palace

[ironbound]

Farming could very well be trading one solo activity for another. With Building community and social groups seems the better option to have grown.

[abc123abc123]

Every son of a farmer I ever met, _never_ want to go back to that crappy life of sleepless nights and hard toil.

Every Web 3.0, leftist, tech bro I ever met, idolize the farmin lifestyle and see before them a hippy commune where free love is practiced.

I never ever seen that, or heard about the leftist tech bro who actually did it.

[exq]

I did it. I grow organic market/CSA produce and provide opportunities for special needs individuals on the farm. I go to bed dog-tired, I make a fraction of what I would in software dev these days, but every single day is rewarding, and my resting heart rate is in the high 40s/low 50s without going to the gym. No jira tickets, no sleepless nights slamming caffeine during a sprint, no out of touch execs forcing me to enshittify, no more eye drops for excessive screen usage. I grow delicious food, support a wholesome local community, and feel like I'm making a positive contribution to society instead of pumping out CRUD apps and gamified bullshit like I was in tech.

I agree that farming is definitely romanticized in some tech circles, and it is not for everyone. Of course my tech experience wasn't universal, but even if ZIRP free money comes back to tech, I'll still be here tending my field :)

[dyauspitr]

Can you compare the actual income between the two?

[matusp]

Farming is "easy" when you have your tech savings and the option to plunge back into a high earning career when shit goes sideways (with wise sage aura, cause you took care of some goats). Farming is harder when your entire family depends on you working hard and you have very little capital.

[gaws]

> the option to plunge back into a high earning career

With the way the industry is moving, this seems much harder now than in the past.

[gaws]

> Every ... leftist

People on the Right fantasize about the farming lifestyle, too.

[9rx]

> crappy life of sleepless nights and hard toil.

I went back. Sleepless nights in the tractor is my favourite time of year.

But you're still ultimately just siting there staring at a screen — albeit a screen on wheels. Same as software development (minus the wheels).

If that's hard toil, I'm not sure what you think is easy?