[dang]

[stub for offtopicness]

Reminders from https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html:

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents."

"Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead."

[selfsimilar]

"The language is intentionally neutral and apolitical, without any stance on social or political issues."

I don't applaud or condemn this, but it's strange that it's on the home and history pages. Putting this in a code of conduct document for collaborators might make sense, but on the home page? Maybe I'm the weird one, but for most languages I consider them a tool. So it's like going to the hardware store and seeing a hammer that has a label "This is not a Liberal or Conservative hammer." Yeah, buddy I know. It's just a hammer.

[tshaddox]

It's kinda funny. There is a popular claim that goes something like "silence or inaction is implicit support for the status quo." The point is that there's not really such a thing as "not taking sides."

I don't quite agree with that, simply because no matter how many things you do take a stance on, there's always an infinite number of things that you haven't taken a stance on.

But when you go out of your way to explicitly mention that you're refusing to take a stance on all social or political issues, that actually does feel pretty close to explicit approval of the status quo for all social or political issues. Of course this likely was not the intent! So why say it at all?!

[Muromec]

The stronger form of it is "Inaction in the face of oppression supports the oppressor."

[gabordemooij]

I don't feel oppressed. I'm just happy with my life.

[badsectoracula]

In this quote you'd be the one being inactive, not the oppressed nor the oppressor.

[code_for_monkey]

Youre not really helping yourself here

glad you dont feel oppressed though

[badsectoracula]

> The language is intentionally neutral and apolitical, without any stance on social or political issues

TBH despite what it claims, to me it sounds like a political statement by itself.

(also it is usually the developers of a language -or other project- being judged about their actions/beliefs, not the languages/projects themselves :-P)

[gabordemooij]

I was having doubts about this too. But in today's (geo)political climate it might be useful. Otherwise I can always delete it. But you're right, it's just a hammer.

[gabordemooij]

and.. I want to avoid having to add a coc. Can try.

[pygy_]

    - Why did you close your eyes ?
    - So that the room will be empty.

Your copy reads as "I'm a radical centrist and will die trying to preserve the status quo".

As it usually goes you'd then tolerate hateful, bigoted folks in the name of openness and Free Speech Absolutism™ (which is totally non-political /s) and chase away women, minorities and folks who care about them.

If this isn't your intention, a CoC is the way to go.

You regrettably can't make hate disappear by pretending it doesn't exist.

[hnlmorg]

I don’t think that’s fair. But i do get how others might read into that too.

Personally i read it more like “this project avoids having any political stance.” Similar to the HN guidelines on politics.

However i do agree that it’s better to remove that message and have no comment on politics, than to comment so visibly that you’re unwilling to comment. Even if you read charitably into the message, it’s still just a distraction on valuable page real estate.

[gabordemooij]

I dont care what you or anyone else thinks. I give you a free tool. That's all.

[pygy_]

You've put it on a forge with issues and PRs open, which implies you expect external contributions.

I'm trying to warn you about the implicit message your copy sends.

It will chase away the folks I mentioned, and some day you'll discover that one of your non-political core contributors goes by @zyklon1488 on twitter.

[code_for_monkey]

see this makes me think you have bad political views

[lagniappe]

We need more people like this.

[tinfoilhatter]

Seems to be a newly emerging pattern, with now at least two examples. Here's the other one I'm aware of (from the Gleam programming language homepage):

Friendly As a community, we want to be friendly too. People from around the world, of all backgrounds, genders, and experience levels are welcome and respected equally. See our community code of conduct for more.

Black lives matter. Trans rights are human rights. No nazi bullsh*t.

[1] https://gleam.run/

[afavour]

I'm assuming it's referring to not using terms like "slave" or "master", etc etc. There isn't quite the same parallel when talking about a hammer.

[throw-the-towel]

There's always a loud someone who'll try to force their country's political issue du jour because "everything is political".

[gabordemooij]

well that's what I want to avoid. What it means is that someone like xlibre-author could create a pr and I will not reject it.

[ddtaylor]

I appreciate the desire to focus on the code.

[pasquinelli]

> The language is intentionally neutral and apolitical, without any stance on social or political issues.

does this mean something?

i was very confused by your description of xoscript as typeless. only typeless languages i know of are languages where a variable can only be a word. i assume you mean it's dynamically typed.

every new language that gets on hn gets two criticisms: they don't show code first thing, and they don't start with what problem is being solved by designing a new language. i'm not very interested in those things. i would, however, like to be told what it is in a concise way. you've basically got, if i understand correctly, a smalltalk-like system here, prototype based instead of class based, with dynamically scoped variables, and you're tooling it with server side scripting in mind. that tells me a lot more than code.

as for the what-problem-are-you-solving-by-designing-this-language criticism, if we're honest we can see that every language is either designed as an experiment, "what would a language be like if...?", or it's designed as a matter of personal ergonomics, "i want language X with differences i, j, and k cuz i like it that way." i'm completely fine with that.

[gabordemooij]

I used PHP, nodejs, Python etc and I just wanted something simpler. I use OpenBSD as my server os and I wanted a scripting language that matches the simplicity (and security) of OpenBSD.

[gabordemooij]

maybe I'll add support for pledge/unveil (with cgi) as well - what do you think?