[self_awareness]

Behavior related to the project maybe, but not behavior how should users behave every day in areas that are completely unrelated.

"You are welcome to our community only if your hair is long and you drive a yellow car, if you're not then you're not welcome." is pretty insane IMO.

[__jonas]

How is it insane to only welcome people to a community that act respectful towards other people? That seems like a really good way to build a solid community.

[tinfoilhatter]

That's not the case with the Gleam community though. Unless you're willing to adopt their opinions / values / moral stance on certain issues, you won't be treated respectfully - you will be ostracized for having an unpopular opinion or view on a given issue.

It is a totally insane way to run a project, and it's quite obvious the Gleam community is run by persons who are unable to handle people with opinions that differ from their own.

It does sound like a great way to build an echo chamber.

[okkdev]

Unpopular opinion like... being racist?

[tinfoilhatter]

Ah yes, because not automatically supporting grifts like the BLM movement (which enriched the founders and did very little for the black community at large), makes someone a racist - I totally forgot!

[DrNefario]

Black Lives Matter is objectively not a grift. There is an argument to be made regarding "BLM Global Network", but calling them BLM is like saying all vegans support PETA.

Regardless, that's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. You don't have to change your beliefs to be part of the Gleam community, you just have to not be an asshole about them. If you're the kind of person that starts an argument any time BLM is mentioned, is it understandable why they wouldn't want you in their community?

[self_awareness]

> Black Lives Matter is objectively not a grift.

There we go again. I think that you people would gain if you'd read what does it mean if something is objective and also the meaning of "subjective". Either you live in social bubbles or you're intentionally ignoring anything that's not in line with your ideology. I'm actually not surprised this is the case, since you're not allowing people outside of your bubbles in your community spaces. You cherish diversity, yet in reality you're the most ideologically closed social group that I know. Letting people in only if it's easy for you is very far from "welcoming".

You're accusing the parent of being an asshole, yet you dismiss his arguments based on false "objectivity". And because of your "objectivity", which is clearly subjective, you reinforce the argument that parent is not welcome in your community. How is this welcoming?

I mean I know the answer.

[self_awareness]

Well it's not insane to only welcome people that act respectful towards other people.

We'll see if this will be a solid community I guess.

[okkdev]

It already is :)

[lpil]

How you behave in community spaces is 100% related to the project.

I agree, that would be very silly. I don't think you can compare not tolerating racists to mandating a particular car colour.

[self_awareness]

SQLite promotes Christian values but I don't think that they have a problem that a satanist is using their software.

It depends on your definition of racism I guess.

[yellowapple]

I don't think Gleam has a problem if Kenneth Copeland is using their software, either. The problem arises when you mistreat community members in community spaces; I can't speak for DRH, but I'm reasonably sure if someone waltzed into SQLite's forum denigrating the devs and their religious beliefs, there wouldn't be much hesitation in removing that person from said forum.

[self_awareness]

> I don't think Gleam has a problem if Kenneth Copeland is using their software, either.

I wouldn't be so sure. In leftist projects, there are countless of examples why someone is not welcome based on their personal beliefs, and because of this I'm cautiously suspicious about Gleam.

If I'm wrong then the Internet is a better place than I think it is, which would be a good thing. If I'm right, then at least I'll dodge another bullet. Either way I win I guess.

[lpil]

Gleam is the same as SQLite, we have some community values on the website but the licence doesn’t exclude anyone from using the software.

[Alupis]

It is, however, unfortunate that a single statement on the Gleam homepage generates this exact conversation every time Gleam trends somewhere.

It's your project, and your community, of course, and I fully respect that. However it doesn't seem good that this statement creates so much friction and controversy for Gleam over and over.

After all, none of the statement's topics would be "on-topic" for any of the Gleam community hangouts. For instance, it would be equally off-topic for someone to discuss supporting or hating Nazis.

Perhaps moving the statement to a formal Code of Conduct page would be a "have cake and eat it too" type thing.

The Gleam community is wonderful, and you've done an incredible job building it. But I don't suspect the homepage statement had anything to do with that.

[lpil]

It only happens on hacker news. Elsewhere it is not mentioned or it is praised.

Gleam does have a formal code of conduct.