[selcuka]

> I've struggled with this point of view

Because it is much easier for people to universally accept a system where good or neutral deeds are expected by default, and misdeeds are punished.

It is very difficult to construct an alternative system that humans could internalise. Where would you draw the line? What about saving 50 people, and then killing 49? Should they cancel each other, too?

[DrScientist]

> What about saving 50 people, and then killing 49? Should they cancel each other, too?

Only if they were linked - you blew up a plane that was about to be flown into a building for example.

That's completely different from one day taking over a plane and landing it safely because the pilot was out of action, and the next day shooting down a plane for fun.

You can't save up to murder your wife by giving to the homeless.

[selcuka]

> Only if they were linked - you blew up a plane that was about to be flown into a building for example.

That's a bad example (because all 99 will die anyway if you don't do something, so you're not really killing 49 to save 50), but ignoring that, I don't think you can trivially answer such questions. They have been discussed by many philosophers for the last few thousands of years and we don't seem to have a common agreement about ethics and morality.

Would you change your answer if the building was a prison for 50 child abusers, and the plane carried 48 newborn babies (plus the pilot)? Why? A human is a human, right?

[DrScientist]

It really isn't complicated. For the first example the principal of least harm applies - the only hard part about that is the practical calculation of that - which can obviously be a matter of judgement - but the principal is clear.

And you are also missing the point of the comment - the key thing is the principal of least harm only applies if the things are directly linked.

I suspect you'd find it hard to find a philosopher over the last few thousands of years who thought that the concept of saving up societal credit so you can kill you spouse is somehow a valid one.

[listenallyall]

Where are you drawing the line? It's relatively easy to have a black & white ideological framework regarding murder - but what about lesser crimes, like beating someone up and causing serious, but not life-threatening injuries? What about being a witness to a crime but never reporting it? Does the motivation ever come into play? Can people who commit a crime never "redeem" themselves by performing positive deeds going forward? Isn't that the point of rehabilitation?

[hexer292]

There is no line. Killing one person while saving a thousand is just as bad as killing one person.

[andyjohnson0]

There is no answer to this. The universe does not provide any mechanisms for moral decision making or evaluation. Rather, morality exists in human minds, not in the external world.

We have to do the best we can to be kind and minimise suffering, while understanding that there will inevitably be a diversity of judgements on moral matters. And if those moral judgements have real-world effects, there will be moral judgements about that too.

The lack of moral universality is how it is, not a failure. And it never ends: there are no right answers, although there might very well be wrong ones. Its up to us.

[account42]

And that's exactly the thing about cancel culture - it seeks to elevate one particular moral judgement above all others and punish not just those that go against it but also those that advocate for or even just consider any other morality.

[andyjohnson0]

Firstly, its not even clear to me that "cancel culture" is anything more than a soundbite.

But even if it is, in fact, a thing - it's clearly not backed by "one particular moral judgement", as it is commonly portrayed. Lots of people face disapproval and punishment for a diversity of chosen moral stance, including people who could be categorised as "liberal" and who are typically considered to be those doing the "cancelling".

Supporers of the abolition of slavery or apartheid, or of human rights for minority communities, were for many years "cancelled" in the US, and in Europe, for example. Today, in the US, supporters of social equality and diversity are being "cancelled".

So I suspect that "cancel culture" is what you get when one moral/political group (of any persuasion) only sees part of the bigger picture, and uses that to manufacture a grievance.

[idiotsecant]

'cancel culture' used to be called 'calling out assholes' before we entered the current period of fetishizing cruelty.

Now, the worst and slimiest amoung us are crawling up on the cross and weeping and gnashing their teeth because people won't buy their book or watch their movie. It's almost always the most powerful who claim to be 'cancelled'.

Calling out assholes is a good and useful function and we should continue to do it.

[btilly]

This is a failure to think, disguised as moral judgment.

If a police sniper shoots a mass shooter in the middle of their mass shooting, that's a hero. Not a villain.

[kelnos]

To be fair, though, some moral frameworks (not mine) proscribe that any killing is bad, even to save oneself or others.

I don't mean this as a "gotcha", but as a reminder that morality is a human invention, and different humans will take different moral stances on things.

[HWR_14]

There is a clear difference between "I had to kill someone to save 50 lives" and "I saved 50 lives, so I'm allowed to murder one person as payment"

[Filligree]

By that metric, doctors doing triage at a disaster site should be jailed.

[darkwater]

This is even more out of touch of the comment you are answering to.