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by fsflover 159 days ago
This is probably impossible and also not needed. Choose security through compartmentalization (instead of security through correctness that never works), if you really care about security.

Works for me with Qubes OS.

2 comments

Do you daily drive Qubes? I'd be curious to hear about your experiences. I've been following the project from the sidelines for years, but haven't taken the leap.
Do you hate GPU acceleration? Do you hate using most hardware? Do you like using Xorg? Then Qubes is for you.

This is in jest, but those are my pain points - the AMD thinkpad I have can't run it, the Intel one melts yubikeys when decoding h264 video. The default lock screen can't read capital letters from the yubikeys static password entry. Qubes has a certain user that it caters to, I really wish they could get enough money to be able to cater to more use cases. It is not difficult to use it if it works for you.

GPU acceleration is coming: https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/8552

> Do you hate using most hardware?

Nobody uses "most hardware". You may be unlucky with your hardware, then it's a problem. Or you can specifically buy hardware working with the OS you want.

> Do you like using Xorg?

What's wrong with Xorg?

> What's wrong with Xorg?

Lock screens that crash. Lock screens that can’t handle input from a yubikey?

There are no crashes on lock screen with Qubes. Concerning Yubikey, see this: https://doc.qubes-os.org/en/latest/user/security-in-qubes/mf...
Yes, I daily drive Qubes. It's an amazing feeling to feel in full control over your computing and not being afraid to open any links or attachments. Here is my Qubes OS Elevator Pitch: https://forum.qubes-os.org/t/how-to-pitch-qubes-os/4499/15

It's slow for tasks requiring GPU, but allowing GPU for chosen, trusted VMs is planned: https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/8552

Just FYI, there are some people that vastly exaggerate the security it provides. For the most part, you're just as safe using flatpak versions of applications.
When was the last Flatpak escape? Last VM escape from VT-d virtualization, which Qubes uses by default, was found in 2006 by the Qubes founder, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Pill_(software)
The most recent VM escape from VT-d virtualization was in 2022[0].

Escapes are not the only vulnerability. QSB-108 allows for reading the memory of other qubes running on the host[1].

[0] https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2020-15565

[1] https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2025/07/11/qsb-108/

Apart from the fact that this is extremely rare, the first vulnerability is not a complete escape. For example, any offline vault VM storing secrets stayed secure. This is just not happening with any other security approach.

Speculative sidechannel attacks have nothing to do with OS or compartmentalization technology, since they are the problem of CPUs. Nothing can help here, so this is irrelevant to this discussion. Except that Qubes Air will save you in the future: https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2018/01/22/qubes-air/

> Apart from the fact that this is extremely rare,

So are bubblewrap escapes, which is the sandbox flatpak uses.

> the first vulnerability is not a complete escape.

It could potentially lead to one, and being able to obtain information from other VMs defeats much of the point of isolation, and so defeats much of the point of why people use qubes.

> For example, any offline vault VM storing secrets stayed secure. This is just not happening with any other security approach.

That's not true. Strong MAC would suffice, no VT-d needed.

> Speculative sidechannel attacks have nothing to do with OS or compartmentalization technology

Of course they do, in fact they have more to do with it than solutions like flatpak, which is why Qubes releases security advisories and patches to address those vulnerabilities.

Qubes doesn't compartmentalize the image decoder in a web browser from the rest of the renderer, and if you're serving tracking pixels and can exploit image decoding, you can make serious mischief.
If you use Qubes correctly, then VM in which you go to untrusted websites is disposable and contains no personal information, so there is no mischief to make.
The web page you are visiting contains personal information, and that is where the mischief can be made. All that is required is for the website to incorrectly trust an image, either by not sanitizing a user-uploaded image or by embedding a third party image. Both trust bugs are rampant on the web, and both have caused problems in the past. Adding an improperly vetted image decoder is a sure-fire way to get exploit authors salivating.
> The web page you are visiting contains personal information, and that is where the mischief can be made.

This is a weird threat model. You trust some website with your personal information but you don't trust that images they embed are trusted and will not attack you. Nothing will save you here except switching off showing pictures, which you can also do on Qubes.

I would say, if they really embed malicious images, then they probably have other problems with security, which nothing you run can help with.

> Nothing will save you here except switching off showing pictures

Or having a trustable image decoder, which is what web browsers actually do. This is a basic requirement that you are proposing to do away with by instead not showing images at all.

> trustable image decoder

This may never exist, since all software have bugs. Instead, you can isolate opening your pictures into a different VM, keeping this VM safe.

> what web browsers actually do

Haven't we seen related vulnerabilities?