[crystal_revenge]

> when the person in front of me reclines their seat.

As a reasonably tall person I have never reclined my seat and will forever consider anyone who does an asshole.

The very fact that you can but don’t do something is the precise space where assholeness is defined.

[mjrbrennan]

This is fair on shorter flights ~1-4 hours, but I am reasonably tall too and I am not suffering through a 14 hour overnight flight without reclining. I don't think there is anything wrong with it in this case, and flight attendants will force people to de-recline their chair in meal times etc.

[OlympusMonds]

Surely you should blame the airlines, rather than the individuals. They cram more people on, giving you less space - but charge the same - and you get mad at other customers, rather than them for cramming you in.

[BeetleB]

> They cram more people on, giving you less space - but charge the same - and you get mad at other customers, rather than them for cramming you in.

Airline fares are very cheap. Just the other day they compared the cost of flying from London to Calcutta decades ago vs now - much cheaper now. You'll see the same when you compare domestic flights.

Yes, it's true that you had more leg room back then. Now you have the option to pay the same high fares and get similar leg room, or be cheap and get less leg room.

Classic example of "more choice leads to more dissatisfaction".

[crystal_revenge]

I pointed out exactly the opposite: surely moral action is only possible when one has agency.

If an airline needs to force you to be a decent person, then you have no right to claim decency in the first place.

People who lean their seats back are assholes. Claiming “but this is permitted!” proves my point.

I can’t imagine what a nightmare world it would be if decency were only possible through the exercise of external authority.

[rkomorn]

You have the agency to let the person in front of you have a more enjoyable flight without judging them for it.

That is also a decent and unselfish thing to do.

I don't lean back on flights, but I don't consider the person in front of me an asshole for doing it.

Are you talking about agency and not being an asshole, or are you just being selfish about your space?

[watwut]

> You have the agency to let the person in front of you have a more enjoyable flight without judging them for it.

No, being doormat that never judges assholes is not necessary in order to be a decent person.

In fact, there is special category of decent person heroes who do the uncomfortable thing, judge assholes and even protect and help others when assholery becomes too much. Both when talking about recliners and like, terrorizing thugs in streets.

> Are you talking about agency and not being an asshole, or are you just being selfish about your space?

It is not being selfish to not want to give your space to an asshole who decided to take it. That person is still an asshole. And again, both when we are talking about recliner and when certain government sends violent thugs.

[BeetleB]

> People who lean their seats back are assholes.

Clearly, many HN users, as well as much of the population, disagree with you.

You may want to re-evaluate your moral values.

[grayfaced]

And yet I'd prefer both myself and the person in front of me lean back. The upright posture is painful for me. Is your preference more valid then mine? The fact that the chairs are configured that way suggests the cultural norm.

[abenga]

Leaning back doesn't help knee room, the person in front leaning back actually reduces it by the seat back leaning against a tall person's knees.

[grayfaced]

Even though I'm tall it's about the back, not the knees.

[abenga]

For me, it's the knees. When everyone is leaned back you can't even comfortably use a tablet to read, while I can comfortably sit upright for a few hours (of course taking a walk from time to time). The person in front reclining their seat forces me to either manspread into the seat on the left or right (if I'm not on the aisle) or stick my feet in the aisle and getting in the cabin crew's way as they move back and forth.

[dagi3d]

so I guess you pay to choose seats in the last row of the plane...

[yard2010]

I did this once and one time was forced into doing it and it was a horrific nightmare. The lack of contra for my legs meant I was constantly slipping forward, it was tiring. The fact that this is an emergency seat made it worse - there was no handle for the hand because of some bullshit. The flight attendant policed every action I did from putting my jacket on to eating with the attachable tray. I will never do it again even if it means I fly for free.

[VBprogrammer]

One of the most relaxed flights I ever had I was window seat in the back row with a pleasant elderly couple. When everyone else was busy queuing to get off the plane they were sat knitting. I'd got into my novel and just sat enjoying it until they moved. Far less stressful than the usual madness.

[monkey_monkey]

They're absolutely not assholes. People who expect the world to revolve around them and cater for their every whim are probably more deserving of that title.

[hackingonempty]

If you don't fit in the smallest seat then buy a bigger seat. Someone using the space they paid for is not being an asshole.

[avh02]

Tall people don't choose their height, fat people (mostly) choose their weight.

Edit: also, if the airline can't deal with a certain percentile of the population under their normal product, they should figure out how to make it happen. It's discrimination to not account for tall people

[lostlogin]

Could a down voter chime in?

[lostlogin]

I just did that. And having paid an extra $1000 per seat for 3 seats, the airline (Qatar) gave them to someone else.

Neat. Now what do I do?

Typed from a 17 hour flight to New Zealand.

[arjvik]

I personally believe that the ideal situation is in fact everyone reclining their seat

[kstrauser]

I'm about 6' tall, even. In some cattlejets, my knees physically touch the seat in front of me. A lady on a recent flight flung her seat back and I cried out involuntarily in sudden pain.

I understand why she wanted to lean back. And yet, when she did, it freaking hurt. I'm around the 80th percentile in height in the US, and while my doctor says I could lose a few pounds, I wear a men's large shirt so I'm not exactly enormous. Even though they seat can technically recline, you cannot convince me that they're actually meant to.

[mjevans]

Can I have the 5th element padded roller beds that are disinfected between every use?

[bschwindHN]

My ideal airline would be one where you show up to the airport with your luggage, check it in, and then they knock you out and load you on the plane.

You get woken up at your destination after they've taken you off the plane. It would be the closest thing you can get to teleportation.

Then the airline wouldn't have to fuss with preparing shitty food and coffee or deal with annoying passengers. A win for everyone!

[cwillu]

https://youtu.be/lTO5vhRFCv0

[bschwindHN]

Basically this but they won't even have to trick me to knock me out.

[taskforcegemini]

they had this in "the 5th element"

[jen20]

Not every seat reclines: the one in front of the exit row is a key example.

[bluGill]

I get significant pain when I sit fully upright. If I must fly I need to recline. I've been to a doctor (and had surgery...) but the pain is there and reclining is required for minimal comfort. Deal with it, the seats are small, but my seat is going to affect you, you are just a jerk for thinking you need that extra space.

[tayo42]

I have never come across this opinion until it seemed to have blown up on the internet in the last few years.

[kstrauser]

Seats have gotten smaller. It wasn’t a big deal 30 years ago because you could reclining without mashing the person behind you.

It’s kind of like a yoga studio with mats 3 feet apart when they use to be 6. You’re allowed, and encouraged, to spread your arms out wide, but now if you do you’re going to have a hand in your neighbor’s face. The yoga studio laughs at the visitors arguing about whether one’s an asshole for using their arm space, or for telling others to stop slapping them in the face, when the whole thing is their fault.

[nerdawson]

If I have the option to recline my seat, and doing so is going to make me more comfortable, that’s what I’m going to do.

I can live with the person behind me thinking I’m an asshole.

The airline offers the facility and I won’t sacrifice my own needs for fear of upsetting a stranger.

[kstrauser]

“It’s all about me!”

I suspect they’re not the only person around you who thinks you’re an asshole.

[542354234235]

“It’s all about me!” Says the person that demands everyone conform to their preference.

[kstrauser]

I mean, do whatever you want that doesn’t hurt people around you. But when it hurts them, it’s time to ask whether our own convenience is worth the pain we’re causing.

[munk-a]

Why is the airplane that chooses to place seats so close together not on the hook for all of the blame in this scenario? We could just offer a decent traveling experience for everyone.

[fc417fc802]

Isn't it the passenger's fault for failing to purchase a seat that meets their needs? The airline isn't to blame for offering a cheaper alternative for those who find it sufficient. And other passengers certainly aren't to blame for using the product that they purchased.

[kstrauser]

Oh, it’s definitely their fault. They brought this about to cram extra seats on a flight, customers be damned. No doubt about it, they’re certainly the root cause.

But when you find yourself in an uncomfortable group situation, it’s good to ask how you can make it better for everyone, or at least not worsen it. “I paid so I’m doing whatever it takes to not inconvenience myself in the slightest” is the origin of “this is why we can’t have nice things”.

It’s different when there’s a compelling physical need here. If the person in front of me has a hurt back and can’t bear sitting upright, and I knew about it, I’d put up with it as best I can in the interest of we’ve all got to get along. But in the scheme of things, not that many people are unable to sit up and not crush their neighbors.