[bschwindHN]

I think their point also covers this - since it's so easy to scroll, you can always just do a little two finger scroll wiggle to have it appear and see where you are. And that's only if you haven't configured it to always display.

[nkmnz]

You don't even have to scroll. Placing two fingers on the pad makes the scrollbar appear immediately. I'm happy for each additional pixel of space on my screen, but I also think a scrollbar should be completely configurable userland behavior.

[bschwindHN]

It should, unfortunately apple doesn't believe the same I suppose. I'm lucky enough that I'm happy with their defaults and don't spend much time thinking about tweaking stuff on my computers, but I can understand it being super frustrating if you're not okay with the available settings.

[nkmnz]

Yeah. Defaults should make the details of the system go out of the user's way, for >95% of the users, >95% of their time. The remaining <5% of users are power users and hackers, and the remaining <5% of usage are strong taste and individual hacks.

[Wowfunhappy]

> but I also think a scrollbar should be completely configurable userland behavior.

It is configurable, right in System Preferences > General. (Or I guess it's "Settings" now on modern systems, don't know what menu it's in there.)

[nkmnz]

Based on some discussions of users that have already downloaded Tahoe, I was under the impression that this is no longer possible? Also, I think it’s not possible to have the scroll bar outside of the window instead of overlaying some content.

[Wowfunhappy]

Hmm. I haven't used Tahoe myself, but this piece by John Gruber would seem to imply the option still exists. Maybe it got moved? https://daringfireball.net/linked/2026/01/12/macos-26-cut-co...

[nkmnz]

I dread the day I must find out :)

P.S.: seems like the setting still keeps the scroll bar on top of the windows content (e.g. a website), not outside of the content.

[Wowfunhappy]

Traditionally the setting has moved the scroll bar outside of content. I can’t say for sure what they’ve done in Tahoe, but I’m not sure how else it would work—if the scroll bar is persistent it will persistently cover your content.

[quitit]

Many of the complains surrounding the former iOS7 and today's Liquid Glass are tied to the requirement of the interface never moving. Which isn't just an unreasonable requirement, but a ridiculous one.

Just like iOS7+ it is possible to position and layer interface elements in a way where the visual effects will render a screenshot difficult to read, but in practice the elements are frequently in motion or as you've already pointed out easy to make them move. That motion is what negates the layering problems, thus making visual occlusions rare, short-lived and easily resolved.

There is a certain unreasonableness in ignoring that reality, and also ignoring that there is a user setting to keep a full-sized version of the scroll bars always visible.

This isn't to take away from legitimate criticisms such as the issue with the resize hotbox not being updated to match the more rounded corners, but rather highlight that not all online forum criticisms comes from a bona fide place.

[RunSet]

> since it's so easy to scroll, you can always just do a little two finger scroll wiggle to have it appear

That changes the effort required to show useful information from zero to more than zero. Which, while it not be a great quantitative change, is an enormous qualitative change.

Like Chesterton's Fence, it was there for a reason.

"At last (and at least) we have reclaimed that narrow vertical strip of screen real estate on the screens eastern-most vestige! Now to find a good use for it!"

The true annoyance is that in many cases explicitly enabling them does not restore the original functionality.

[quitit]

There is an imbalance between the harms you're pretending to endure versus:

1. The trivial ability it is to resolve, and

2. The existence of an easily accessible user setting to enable the behaviour that you desire.

Fundamentally your complaint thus comes down to a gripe that the OS's defaults don't match your completely subjective idea of how just one of many OS elements should work.

Which raises such an interesting question, because of all of the UX behaviours present on macOS - this is your hill?

[userbinator]

At last (and at least) we have reclaimed that narrow vertical strip of screen real estate on the screens eastern-most vestige! Now to find a good use for it!"

...extra padding?