[monero-xmr]

You can live with a sustained opioid addiction permanently without major issues. That’s the entire basis of methadone clinics - controlled dispersement of opioids at a level that solves cravings and allows the addict to be functional. It is very sad we don’t allow pharmaceutical grade opioids to be given to addicts in a controlled way, it would eliminate the purity variance that causes overdoses, and prevent the poison mixed in to increase street profits from destroying bodies (tranq, etc)

[herbst]

In Switzerland they can get actual, state grown, heroin. Clean heroin is one of the least problematic substances appearantly, less problematic and more "everyday friendly" than Methadon even.

And you don't SEE any issues like in the US (or UK) around here at all.

[Aurornis]

> Clean heroin is one of the least problematic substances appearantly, less problematic and more "everyday friendly" than Methadon even.

Least problematic is too strong of wording. Consistent opioid use will take a large toll on the body and mind. A therapeutic level of dosing could possibly be better than severe chronic pain depending on the situation, but even chronic pain patients have to deal with a range of negatives and side effects that are only tolerable because they’re less bad than their severe chronic pain.

Chronic opioid use induces a lot of changes in the body and mind. The initial euphoria isn’t sustainable, as everyone knows, but long term use induces even further changes that predispose users to deeper depression and can even begin to augment pain signals.

Opioids are in a class of drugs that are unusually deceptive because users who more or less control their dosing will talk themselves into thinking they can do this forever without real negatives. They can go for years before the cumulative negatives become too obvious to ignore.

For addicts deep in cycles of rehab-relapse extremes, going to a maintenance program and achieving stability is definitely better than continuing the cycle indefinitely. However it comes with a high price relative to sobriety. I think it’s important to not downplay the effects of being on opioids for years and years.

[F7F7F7]

Your response reads like status quo par for the course.

The same thinking that fueled the "Just Say No" and "this is your brain on drug's" campaigns in the 80s/90s. Because we all know that cutting off access via stone cold sobriety and absolute illegality under the law is the right solution.

[Aurornis]

Straw man response. I didn’t say anything about that.

I’m trying to counter the idea that a consistent heroin dependence is the “least bad substance” when there are clearly numerous drugs that are much less toxic over the long term.

I said nothing about best techniques for dealing with people who have addictions. My goal is to avoid having being read these comments and think that because they’re smarter they’ll be able to handle and benefit from a stable opioid dependence. It’s exactly how one of my friends got started

[Tom1380]

I live in Zurich. I spent 5 minutes waiting at a bus stop in Langstrasse and I was offered cocaine and marijuana by a thug

[comice]

The comment was about heroin. Were you offered heroin?

Is cocaine and marijuana available from the government too? If not, what relevance is your comment?

Was this the first and only time you were waiting at a bus stop in Switzerland? If so, perhaps a notable story, if not then we'll need more information to conclude how bad this thug problem really is in Switzerland.

[zhdc1]

Langstrasse is as close to a red-light district as you'll find in Zurich.

It's gotten a lot better over the last couple of years, but stating that you were offered drugs there is like being offended that you walked past a casino in Vegas.

[johnisgood]

The problem is definitely with adultered products. Never accept anything from a random "thug".

[herbst]

Sounds like you have easy options for some common drugs. Not a bad thing perse and sounds like they didn't offer any opioids

[fennecbutt]

Lmao as a kiwi living in UK it's definitely a bad thing. Can't go on a night out in London without half dozen dudes trying to sell you coke. Same dudes who are waiting in alleys waiting to mug people when they get the chance.

If you ever see >1 person just standing around and not walking somewhere in London early in the morning just stay the fuck away from them. And if they start heading your way, run.

[herbst]

I know how annoying this can be, especially in some countries this behaviour is often directly associated with criminality. Here in Switzerland dealers are often (not always) just that, they make enough to not bother with anything else. They don't look like "dirty" junkies, they don't bother stealing from tourists, they basically don't look for any extra attention when the business is rolling anyway.

[scotty79]

When I was in Amsterdam people were offering hard drugs on the street but "no, thank you" was perfectly sufficient response

[seanmcdirmid]

Survival bias: the police would come down on them on hard if they were scene as disrupting social order. They have to not look dirty to survive, Swiss police are no joke.

[alimw]

You've only told us that you're scared of being mugged by dealers! That doesn't even count as anecdotal evidence that it's likely.

[fennecbutt]

Been mugged twice in London, police weren't interested at all, even with the one where I was assaulted pretty bad.

Got my car totalled on the m40 by a teen with a license of 6 months who was clearly on his phone - that one I was for sure lucky, could've easily been the end of me. The police? Didn't even show up. My police report that I filled out while still shaking got a response letter of "We don't care m8".

[kakacik]

Is it too long, too little or what? Red light districts, official or not are the place to get drugs in european towns. Langstrasse is basically an official place for that, at least the most official Zurich has.

[zhdc1]

"waiting at a bus stop in Langstrasse" -> what were you expecting?

[jacquesm]

Probably a bus?

[Etheryte]

If you think cocaine and marijuana are comparable/interchangeable with heroin, you might want to educate yourself on the topic a bit more before trying to make a quip.

[monero-xmr]

Imagine you are sitting in a room. Your child is in front of you. A scary man sits next to them. The man says:

“Your child is a drug addict. They are addicted to opioids. I am the devil, without any care in the world other than making money. The choice is yours. Would you rather they inject clean heroin made by a pharmaceutical company in your country, or banish them forever as street addicts slavishly doing what it takes to score their fix?”

When facing the devil I’m voting for my tax dollars to give them clean heroin made by my country. That is what every parent wants when faced with an addicted child

[znpy]

That’s a fake dichotomy btw, a sadly very common logical fallacy.

You (wrongly) assume there’s no way out of an addiction, for example.

[acessoproibido]

Its definitely easier to beat addiction if you aren't living on the street, selling everything you have and are injecting one of the most horrible shit substances but instead you are using a clean, safe alternative that is provided by the state together with prevention programs (which is usually the model for this) - how is it a false dichotomy?

Or are you someone who assumes you just need to "use willpower" and "stop" being an addict? I assure you its not so easy with opiates.

[imtringued]

Usually the fastest and most effective way out of an addiction is medication assisted treatment, which means having a doctor control your dosage with a clean supply of the drug or a less addictive substitute that targets the same receptors.

[Bridged7756]

More often than not, there isn't. Your brain chemistry is just messed up and dependent on the drug. Ask any ex-addict about their cravings.

The ones who manage to make it out, usually have something to live for (and the will to live for it), but a lot of people have no money, no job, no career, no family, no spouse, no kids, and no good memories of life, and even if they did, there's no guarantee they'll beat the substance. Sadly for these people, it's very likely they won't see a way out of addiction.

The consensus is that "hitting rock bottom" is the only way to help an addict. But many hit rock bottom and never get up again, or don't have anything to climb for.

[solumunus]

They never made such an assumption.

[lolive]

I switched from my Twitter addiction to a Bluesky addiction. Still scrolling to death, but now my opinion is mine again. #dontDoGrok

[specproc]

Methadone is available in the UK, on the NHS. I know at least one person who has been on it for decades.

https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/methadone/

[mmooss]

> You can live with a sustained opioid addiction permanently without major issues.

To me that seems to say cause of the opiod crisis doesn't exist, which probably isn't what you mean. But what do you mean?

[monero-xmr]

The problem is not the opioids themselves as a chemical. They are tolerated well and have minimal side effects. The main issue is that street opioids are of uncertain purity, and cut with toxic chemicals. This causes overdoses when a batch is too strong, and various health issues from the harsh toxins.

A properly managed opioid addiction can be permanent. For a decade millions of Americans were addicted to opioids (OxyContin, Vicodin, etc.) prescribed by doctors. When the state cracked down they were forced to go on the street to get their medicine, which is when the opioid crisis exploded

[mmooss]

That's completely counter to the very well-researched and reported, and proven in court, narrative that people suffered greatly from opiod addictions due to those doctor's prescriptions.

What is the basis for your narrative?

[Veliladon]

And we learned zero from the change after shutting down the Purdues. The electorate just wants to see drug users punished, not treated. Even though treating cheaper, more humane, and has way better outcomes.

[gruez]

>When the state cracked down they were forced to go on the street to get their medicine, which is when the opioid crisis exploded.

What's the data corroborating this theory?