[diroussel]

The problem isn't so much finding the shortest path, but finding the right cost function that adequately matches human satisfaction. Not just distance, not just turns, but also knowing which areas are done, and other small factors.

[readthenotes1]

That is exactly right as anybody who has done the work in a wrong way recognizes.

In a way, the computer science student may or may not have realized that he has stumbled upon one of the biggest problems in software development--the arrogance of ignorance.

Especially with lawn mowers, turns are highly weighted over distance. Also, if you are regularly mowing, then it's not so obvious what has been mowed and what not. So regularization and simplification of the path is even more important than turns so that you can discard whole plots in the to-do list.

Roomba's (RIP) don't have the same memory and turn weight function that humans do, of course.

[ghm2199]

Yeah. Human preference are like snowflakes. One mans "clean-enough" is another man's OCD driven nightmare.

[spwa4]

For an employee the cost function is maximum wage for minimum work. Since at minimum wage, you're paid for your time, this means sweeping as badly and slowly as the minimum the manager accepts.

Hell, given that there is a social safety net, and you'll have costs to do the job (food, public transport, ...) you're probably even better off doing worse than that, and getting fired when the manager is "tired of your shit" or whatever.

Then you'll get unemployment, which is slightly less, but you can invest the time in cooking at home, and you'll eat better and have more money left over.

[seec]

It's a very cynical view but I kind of agree. In those kinds of jobs, the only rewards for doing the job well and fast is just more mindless jobs of the same type. It would be usefull if you would receive a benefit for doing the job better or you could leave earlier for the same pay but that is rarely the case, since as you said, employers generally pay for your time instead of task completion (which is rather dumb because it offers bad incentives for both sides).

I have talked about this with some business owners who were getting kinda angree that some employes were not putting in a lot of efforts. In all case they were paying the minimum wage with absolutly zero compensation for doing the job better and/or faster.

I can't decide if they are just stupid or simply corrupt but they really should realise that with a strong welfare state and plenty of similar shitty jobs available, the stick really cannot work all that well and they should really use the carrot a lot more. But of course those people generally make at least 3-4 times the minimum wage and they feel they deserve the premium because they deserve it and are so much better. Funnily enough, those that I know consistenly do a worse job than their employees at most things and it's obvious they didn't get there by starting at the bottom.

[spwa4]

> I can't decide if they are just stupid or simply corrupt but they really should realise that with a strong welfare state and plenty of similar shitty jobs available, the stick really cannot work all that well ...

That assumes the manager level above them isn't doing the exact same thing.

[seec]

I'm mostly talking about people that don't really have a manager above them or all the freedom they need to organise payroll as they see fit. Restaurants owners, recreation center owner, tradesman, etc.

They really could reward good elements, but treat everyone as interchangeable at the same exact pay rate. They get mad when people don't do as good as a job as they wish and then they get mad when they find another job.

I have many examples, but 2 recent ones where:

- a man who was hired as lifeguard for a small pool was being complained about for not cleaning the thing properly, even though every single similar job do not require this tasks for the same pay level, he left to create his own business with friends and is much happier (even though he doesn't make much more money yet).

- a woman who was hired as waitress ended up doing the vast majority of the work for the other waitress, a woman part owne that was quite a bitch in many ways. The hired woman got paid minimum wage and had to share the tips, even though from what I saw, she is the one who got most of them. The next season, she refused to come back, prefering instead working as a cashier. The woman owner was somehow confused. The hired woman was a strong worker, no reason to slave away for greedy ungratefull owners.

Unsurprisingly, the first business isn't going well (2 year going chronic deficit) and the second one just failed after 4 years. Those people just don't understand the true value of work, because they never had to do as much work themselves. I won't details my connection but they are people I know very well and the link is so obvious to me, but apparently not to them. But they are failing, so I guess karma is a bitch in the end.