[kayodelycaon]

I really don’t like being snarky here but this is an absolutely perfect example of what I was talking about in my last paragraph.

I didn’t mention energy because energy has no relevance.

I’ve literally broken down crying because I really wanted to work but my brain refused to move. I was having such a great day and was really motivated. I spend hours and absolutely exhausted every bit of energy I had trying every advice that I’ve spent my entire life hearing. I could not get a single word out of my brain.

Nothing worked. I spent my entire childhood trying harder and got nowhere. I probably shouldn’t say this, but I get quite pissed off when people tell me to try hard harder.

[bunnybomb2]

You arent the only human whos had a issue with not getting things done, its normal, and its hackable. Brains are hackable.

I dont mean to say you implied it, but its easy to dig a larger hole when you believe you are special, or you have tried "all" the advice.

Every problem has a solution, and I beg you to search deeper to what you do even in task-paralysis states. That might be where your mission comes from.

It helped me to have a life goal that was bigger than life, ego, or energy. Maybe you havent found it yet. If you have, I apologize if I sound cocky!

[jimnotgym]

You sound like you are just repeating the same mistake in telling a nuerodiverse person to 'just do this brain hack, it worked for me.' It will never work for them. Never. It will just make them feel worse about themselves.

I am brilliant at certain aspects of my job. I have read the books, had coaching etc. And yet today I still miss important meeting because I don't realise it is time to go...with a watch on my arm, outlook reminders popping up etc. I just hold attention so deep that I am never going to notice. It is what makes me great at my work. So now I am a manager I have developed some solutions. I hire people who compliment me, and I am open about my problem. It is normal for my team to walk in my office and say, 'are you coming to this meeting?'

[kayodelycaon]

You’re cocky. :)

Some people are special. The preferred term is neurodivergent. ;)

There are times you just can’t fix a broken brain by trying harder or finding an alternative.

It can be really difficult to understand if you’ve never experienced it yourself. For you there’s, always been a way to get something done.

What do you do when you try to throw something with your arm and your entire body doesn’t move? No matter what you try to do. You can’t get your body to move. I got some advice on how you should move your arm. :)

[bunnybomb2]

I am neurodivergent, I have experienced exactly what your saying myself for my entire life..

I know the feeling, and to assume I dont/have "always had a way" because I found a way out, iss a very victim way of living.

My advice still stands, look deeper. If you want to sit in a hole and repeat how there's no hope, you can, but it wont do anything.

You arent different or special. You have hope. I didnt have it easier, I fought harder

[fastasucan]

>I didnt have it easier, I fought harder

No you didn't. Try to build yourself up without putting others down, how is that challenge?

[bunnybomb2]

Truth hurts

[smeej]

So does the fall that tends to follow pride.

[smeej]

Your advice is the equivalent of telling someone who has dyslexia, "Reading isn't hard. You just look at the letters, and then you say the words out loud. Or if that doesn't work, you have to come up with some other way to make it so when you see the letters, you know what the words say, and then you say them out loud. Just hack it."

Some people really do just have to figure out a way to get through life missing a skill that "typical" brains have. It's not "hack it until you make your brain do the typical thing." It's "choose a field where you can get away with not doing the thing, or hire someone to do the thing, because you're not going to be able to do the thing, and all the advice in the world isn't going to change that."

[fastasucan]

>t helped me to have a life goal that was bigger than life, ego, or energy. Maybe you havent found it yet. If you have, I apologize if I sound cocky!

You are incredibly cocky, and naive and have very little insight on other peoples situation. You are reducing peoples various illnesses to something that can be solved if they just tried a bit harder not to be sick. If only it was so easy.

[bunnybomb2]

Its funny, because thats exactly how it works...

I've had severe mental illness and I suffer from it daily.

You still arent special. Im not lacking some unique viewpoint just because you are mentally ill. Try harder. Stop being weak.

Unless its schizophrenia/bipolar, then take ur meds

[fastasucan]

The fact that you say "stop being weak" without having any insight tells me that you have much growing to do.

[bunnybomb2]

Whatever happened to Gary Cooper, the strong, silent type?

[machomaster]

They keep all their feelings inside, carrying the worries of the world, constantly sacrificing themselves at every opportunity without a hint of reciprocity, and then die of a heart attack in their 60s or earlier.

[a_t48]

You aren't the only one. For me it was diagnosed as ADHD.

[machomaster]

Way too many people treat ADHD as an excuse of not following proper task-management rules. They are so special that no rules could possible apply to them. To all hundreds of millions of them...

This is backwards. In practice, it should be the exact opposite. ADHD people should be MORE vigilant regarding the correct behavior, rules, habits. It is neurotypical people who have some leeway to be lazy with what and how they do stuff, but ADHD have way smaller margin of error!

Sometimes there are things (noise in the room, other distractions, mess in tasks, etc.) that neurotypical can safely ignore, but that will make an ADHD person not able to work at all.

The fact that life is harder to organize and manage for ADHD people only means that they should pay EXTRA attention to doing right things the correct way.

Sure, ADHD people have their own peculiarities (as does any other neurotypical person), but in my experience this is a drop in a bucket of issues that are actually solvable with typical means without reinventing the wheel.

[fastasucan]

>ADHD people should be MORE vigilant regarding the correct behavior, rules, habits.

Yes, but that doesn't make the ADHD fully go away.

>actually solvable with typical means without reinventing the wheel.

Yes, and they are defined by medical science, not your "think deeper".

>The fact that life is harder to organize and manage for ADHD people only means that they should pay EXTRA attention to doing right things the correct way.

Wow great insight, a bit hillarious with the part of asking adhd people pay extra attention. Should the guy with a neurological problem just pay extra attention to moving his leg, and he will soon run as fast as the rest?

[machomaster]

> Yes, but that doesn't make the ADHD fully go away.

Not an argument.

> Wow great insight, a bit hillarious with the part of asking adhd people pay extra attention. Should the guy with a neurological problem just pay extra attention to moving his leg, and he will soon run as fast as the rest?

Yes, if you have problems with inattentiveness, then you can't just eyeball the size of the fabric and cut. You actually need to measure. In worst case, you should measure and remeasure several times, as well as use the pen to draw a straight line with a ruler, instead of just keeping the finger and trusting that you can make the line straight during cutting.

If have no trouble concentrating, you can just work in a cafe or an open office. If you have problems, then take extra steps to get rid of distractions (quiet office, noise cancelling headphones, work-inducing music, etc).

If you have more difficulties getting into the zone, make extra effort organizing yourself: blocking working uninterrupted time on the calendar, disabling notifications, using airplane mode etc.

Have trouble concentrating and the mind wandering? Even more important to keep a proper task/idea/knowledge management system to offload the brain.

[fastasucan]

This is still not enough to get rid of adhd symptoms for many.

Keeping a knowledge management system is uttainable, I bet many with adhd have tried them all (and constantly try new ones instead of doing work)

you can only block so much. Some people suffer so much that days can get lost by doing virtuelly nothing. Its not like its so easy to sit around being unable to work, and still not check the web or whatever. Also even though you block, many people experience that they get contacted regardless, and loose the flow.

What you propose are great ideas for someone having a hard time concentrating, but that is something completely else from those suffering under a diagnosis.

[machomaster]

> This is still not enough to get rid of adhd symptoms for many.

Once again, this isn't the point. And I also didn't suggest it.

A normal adhd should be considered as a personal quirk, not an unescapable death sentence, like many seem to do.

> Its not like its so easy to sit around being unable to work, and still not check the web or whatever

Being still without distractions is hard for most people. Adhd people may have it harder, but fundamentally they don't differ from others.

That's the whole point of slowing down, concentrating on relaxing, not running away from the anxiety and to understand what your mind and body tell you.

> Some people suffer so much that days can get lost by doing virtuelly nothing.

"Virtually" - exactly my point. Most people have not been doing the actual nothing. If they were, they would actually see how much energy and motivation this type of rest gives.

[jimnotgym]

I keep being told this stuff by normies who couldn't do my job.

ADHD doesn't manifest the same way for everyone.

> pay EXTRA attention to doing right things the correct way

I do wrong things a different way all the time. I'm a maverick. I'm known to have creative solutions other people can't find. Not little ones either, 'we have been trying this for 20 years' ones. $multi-million strategic ones. I can't do the boring task list work you normies can do, but I have super powers you don't.

The breakthrough started and my recovery began when I stopped listening to people like you and focused on what I am good at.

But last night, I wanted to get to bed at 10pm, but I got some music stuck in my head. I had some music on to chill out, but something gripped me and I picked up my guitar. It felt like a moment of time but I look up and it is 1am. If I had gone to bed I would have lain awake all night. Meditation would have had this music dominating it and dragging me out of it. I'm in bed late on Saturday morning typing this, which will upset my whole weekend, but I wouldn't have slept, which would have been worse. So, I just went with it.

I envy people who can keep a routine, but I now pity people who don't have extraordinary moments of inspiration. I embrace my super powers and accept my life won't be normal. It will be exceptional.

[smeej]

The assumption that there is one set of rules for "correct behavior, rules, habits" that somehow applies equally to all brains is so spectacularly ignorant it's staggering.

I can obtain the same results as almost anybody at the vast majority of things. But if I am required to follow the same process, I simply cannot. I can't tell you how destructive the well-meaning people were who tried to tie me down to the way that works for their brain rather than saying, "OK, fine. Don't do it my way. Do it your way. Just get it done."

It's like saying to someone with dyslexia, "You just have to be MORE vigilant regarding looking at the letters, putting them together, and saying the words! There's no excuse for not following proper reading rules!"

It's just asinine. It's wonderful that you have figured out a set of "proper task-management rules" that work for your brain. I'm even happier for you if it was easier for you. That sounds nice.

But why on EARTH would the billions of living brains on this planet all function like yours? Does anything else in all those billions of bodies function exactly like yours? Of course not. And it would be ridiculous to expect them to.

[machomaster]

> But why on EARTH would the billions of living brains on this planet all function like yours? Does anything else in all those billions of bodies function exactly like yours?

Yes, literally everything in our bodies function exactly the wayvit function in other people. Never heard of anyone's heart working like another person's kidney.

If the organ is not working properly, it is considered a problem and stuff is done to fix it. The stuff that is from the same list as for any other person with a similar problem. Never heard of knee problems being fixed with dyalisis.

[smeej]

It's impossible to me that you're dumb enough to be saying these things in good faith, so maybe I'm guilty of the same assumption, that anyone who can form sentences must have a brain at least as much like mine that they can connect two thoughts.

Nobody's talking about a heart functioning like a kidney. We're talking about the range of functions among people's hearts, or people's kidneys, or people's brains.

You're acting like everyone's heart is the exact same shape and has the same blood pressure and the same resting heart rate and the same outflow volumes, which is just stupid. There is a HUGE range of function among hearts. There is a HUGE range of "healthy enough to work" among hearts.

JUST LIKE THERE IS WITH BRAINS.

There's also a huge range of "not healthy enough to function under normal circumstances, but not bad enough to kill the person."

I don't believe anybody with the brainpower to create an email address, register for an HN account, and sign into it is actually somehow as ignorant of basic human biology as this, so stop trolling and go away.

[machomaster]

You read, but did not actually listen to my explanation of energy. I gave it for a damn good reason; because most people misunderstand it and my explanations light the bulbs in people's heads.

You also totally missed the point of suggestions entirely. I assume that happened because you were out of brain/willpower energy.

My suggestions were not to try harder. They were the exact opposite, they were about:

1. constraining your energy output

2. being careful where and how you spend your energy

3. do a better targeting with your energy

4. hacks to do the same (or more) with less energy

5. restoring energy

Please reread my previous message after you sleep and with a good mood. Assume that I actually know what I am talking about (because I truly do) and my goodwill. Assume that I did not spend my time writing a long comment in order to anger or troll you, but because I wanted to help; I saw clear indicators of certain problems, to which I am able to provide solutions that work in practice.

[kayodelycaon]

I did reread and I wish I had been more polite. Sorry about that. :(

I really do understand. These are all really great things, I'm bipolar and already use all of them. I have to. But they don't apply here.

I'm discussing a problem that willpower cannot fix.

Here's an analogy:

- Think of willpower as fuel you put into a train.

- You control how far the train goes by changing the throttle or amount of fuel.

- You have a bunch of freight cars behind you and you're ready to get out of the yard.

- Your engine doesn't have any wheels. Someone removed them last night. (This is an analogy, you can't get a different engine.)

- How much fuel do you need to get to your destination?

Bonus Round:

- Your boss starts asking why you haven't moved yet and won't believe you if you say the wheels were removed. Stop being lazy and get to work.

You are not allowed to disagree with this analogy. :) This is exactly what my life is like.

[machomaster]

I wasn't suggesting using willpower to power through the problems. I was suggesting setting up a system, that would fit you and would enable you to live a better and more efficient life. Willpower is useful in setting up the system, to learn it. Not to operate it.

Please watch this fundamental video: https://youtu.be/bcKthx5LTbI

On a surface it is about dieting, but the lessons can be applied to the rest of the life.

Cheers! :-)

[kayodelycaon]

Let me try again. I shouldn't have mentioned willpower. Let me restate the problem.

I try to do something and I have the physical sensation of hitting a wall that shouldn't be there. Thoughts never stop at that part of the brain.

I'm talking about a fundamentally different mechanism than thinking something is too hard. It's a hardware interruption that I have no control over.

I've spent my entire life working around this and it's difficult. Especially when everyone thinks I'm just being lazy or I just need to do this one thing. I'm still trying to figure out how to explain it better.

[machomaster]

Let't imagine that you have a task, that you started doing, but then hit the hardware wall. How physically/emotionally/intellectually tired are you at that point?

What will happen if you just rest? Sleep, eat, exercise/go on a walk, lay down. No phone, no social media, no doom scrolling, no tv, no netflix, no gaming. Just 100% effort of resting and recovering, without any distractions.

Would you not get bored at some point and will decide that it's better to complete the task rather than continue this boredom while fully rested

[kayodelycaon]

I truly believe you're sincere but I can't get my point across. :/ Please read carefully.

Stop thinking about how to fix the problem. You might find this interesting if you look at it scientifically.

When it comes to things like ADHD and bipolar, executive function is compromised at the biological level. Put it simply, the baseline is broken.

You're talking about are inputs to this baseline. To use an analogy, explaining how to make macOS apps to someone who's making a Windows application. There are a lot of principles in common, but the implementations are very different.

The default state for this brain is restless, looking for things to focus on. The recovery methods you're talking about are sensory depth deprivation, the worst possible solution. For myself, the best thing I can do is feed the bastard carefully until it calms down. Think of using calm words to get a screaming toddler who just woke up to stop running around and go back to bed. That's not happening.

Sometimes I can't wrestle this thing into control and focus on what I want to. And you want me to relax? That's a bit optimistic. :)

With ADHD, there are a lot of individuals who are able to find a way to work with this and some use it to their advantage, masking the real cause. For those who have it worse, the underlying problem becomes visible, and they get asked why they can't be like other ADHD people who manage. It's like asking why a two year old can't act like a six year old.

[smeej]

> Just 100% effort of resting and recovering, without any distractions.

You say that like the distractions are exclusively outside. I'm not the person you're replying to, but if I close all my blackout curtains, turn off all the lights, and turn off all but the white noise, but I'm not sleepy, my mind will go in a thousand directions at once.

How do I or anyone else explain that to you? The challenge is in the brain. It's not an outside force. There is no boredom.

[fastasucan]

How can diet replace the wheels? Think bipolar disorder is curable through diet change? Think harder.

[machomaster]

We were talking about healthy people with adhd, not about bipolar people (who need serious medical help) or people with 60iq. No amount of running technique is going to help a legless person.

[fastasucan]

>You also totally missed the point of suggestions entirely. I assume that happened because you were out of brain/willpower energy.

No, you are pretty bad at communicating. You should try a bit harder, because this is obviously at 10% tops.

[machomaster]

You wouldn't handle my 100%, seeing how you consistently misunderstand my 10%.

[smeej]

10%: There's were I a Proving It's

100%: There's no way you could ever understand me if I were trying to say something complicated. I'm much too intelligent. I have way more mental firepower than you do. I'm a very complex thinker, and you just can't keep up. Proving it to you would be a waste of time. It's just hopeless anyway. -- If communication isn't working, sure, it might be a comprehension error. But...it's rarely only a comprehension error.