[languagehacker]

When the Cato institute publishes something like this it's all over. These guys used to be considered incredibly conservative. For them to submit something so level-headed and factual which goes counter to a Republican-led administration's politices indicates that the current government is being run not by folks engaging in good faith with our existing political institutions, but with radicals intent on twisting those institutions for their own agenda.

Please remember that 23% of those with no conviction but pending charges should be considered innocent until proven guilty. If you get hit with a traffic stop, you shouldn't be lumped in with violent offenders. That's not how our justice system works.

[lizardking]

They are incredibly conservative and also very pro-migration. They represent the chamber of commerce wing of the republican party, and nothing about publication should be a surprise to anybody.

[SoftTalker]

> should be considered innocent until proven guilty

Agree if they are charged with a crime. But is being present in the country without a valid visa (or overstaying a visa, or similar) a criminal charge or an administrative violation? If I park my car where I'm not supposed to, it gets towed. There's no trial or presumption of innocence. The car is where it is.

[languagehacker]

There's a challenging burden of proof that starts even with what constitutes the ability to detain a person. US Citizens don't need to show anyone proof of citizenship due to a law that's been on the books since before World War II -- a law that was created after our legislators were disgusted by what was going on in Germany at the time. This means that for ICE to detain someone whose identity they don't already know 100%, there is a legal grey area where a citizen does not need to comply with their request. So how do they improve their accuracy? Sounds like racial profiling, right? That's because it is.

Your analogy of an illegally parked car is spurious because where a car may park is pretty unequivocal. I hope that what I've described here helps you understand that this would be like someone choosing not to tow a Ford but opting to to tow a Kia even though they're parked against the same red curb.

[SoftTalker]

Good point and I would agree the burden is (or should be) on the authorities to be sure they have properly identified any individuals as part of their process.

[flatpepsi17]

> If you get hit with a traffic stop, you shouldn't be lumped in with violent offenders.

Yes, for whatever additional crimes they have committed.

Being here illegally, that's what ICE is after (Immigration and Customs Enforcement), and they are fully in their prevue to send home people who are here against the law.

[throwworhtthrow]

But also consider the new development with courthouse arrests, where ICE and the immigration court officials collaborate to 1) terminate an in-progress asylum case while the asylum seeker is in the courthouse, 2) arrest the asylum seeker as they exit the courtroom.

Some/many of these folks did not enter illegally and did not overstay their visa, but requested asylum at the border and were released into the US. The immigration judges are also not ruling against the asylum seeker, which would be understandable, but it seems the cases are being cut short.

I admit I don't understand the legal details, but it seems to me that this particular group of people targeted by ICE are not here against the law, and also didn't get a fair chance to complete their asylum cases.

I do approve of local police arranging the handover to ICE of convicted criminals for deportation after they've served their sentence.

[deeg]

First, people should be allowed to prove their eligibility and they are not being given that chance.

Second, ICE is going way beyond arresting/deporting illegal aliens. In Boston they stopped a swearing-in ceremony literally minutes before immigrants were about to become citizens.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2025/12/08/unspeakabl...

[tartoran]

Yeah, people who justify ICE are really morally bankrupt and I would not engage in any conversation with them, it's a worthless exercise in frustration. They won't budge, they are probably very hateful people in real life and take pleasure in some sort of revenge on fellow humans.

[languagehacker]

For sure, using civil power, since these are all administrative violations and aren't considered felonies.

[EnPissant]

You are depicting this as some dramatic shift, but the Cato institute has always been anti-Trump.

[rapsey]

Obama deported way more than Trump does and no one complained. Why is that so? Or at least the complaints were not nearly on the level they are now. The actual anomaly is the Biden era.

[SoftTalker]

I'd like to know of any countries where a foreigner can be there without a valid visa/authorization and not be summarily deported if they are discovered.

[riedel]

In Germany we have a thing called tolleration [0]. It actually covers quite a few people, because quite a few people seek asylum because legal immigrantion is often dysfunctional. The difference maybe is that it is difficult in Germany to be employed or take part in life without any formal registration. Deportation is often difficult because it needs to be safe and the country of origin has to cooperate. Because Germany only has EU borders, pushing people beyond its border is pretty pointless once they have settled (they typically return within a few days). But we also have over night deportations of families (children having grown up in Germany, people having jobs) with police raids in some cases, that leave people traumatized.

[0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duldung_%28Aufenthaltsrecht%29

[languagehacker]

The issue isn't with the deportations -- it's actually with the change in tactic, and a lot of the extrajudicial behavior. Immigration is an absolute mess, and it's one we created ourselves with one bad policy after another. I'd recommend "Everyone Who Is Gone Is Here" to understand the 50+ year history of how American military and political involvement in Latin America created the instability which caused the refugee crisis -- and even created the cultural phenomena that resulted in the creation of MS13.

[tartoran]

Change in tactics? This is as violent as it gets, the migrants being turned into slaves (paid $1 per day) while awaiting deportation, living in the worst possible conditions, possibly worse than jails.

[sillystuff]

It was common, on the left (i.e., not Liberals and not so-called Democrats), to call Obama, the "Deporter in Chief".

Democratic voters always circle the wagons to protect the administration, regardless of the administration's actions, when one of their own is POTUS. The Republican voters do the exact same thing.