[lewdev]

> It will make very little difference in the end.

I feel like there will be a difference between a handful of large corporations owning a majority of properties vs thousands of dentists and software engineers. Are you saying that all of these property owners are also soulless profit-optimizers?

I remember watching some video of tenants being priced out of their rental apartments so when they tried to contact the property owner, they found layers upon layers of managers and companies. It just seems better when there are more thousands of owners than just a handful of corporations.

[rgmerk]

You would feel that, but you would be wrong.

Small businesses are often just as ruthless as large ones, just less competent. In any case, most rental properties are managed through agencies, who are soulless profit-optimisers.

[DoesntMatter22]

So what’s your solution exactly? No businesses at all?

[rgmerk]

See my OP.

In short, the appalling treatment of renters in Australia is due to the chronic undersupply of housing; if landlords had to compete for tenants it would not be possible to mistreat them in the way many currently do.

There is also scope for better regulation of tenancies and indeed the Victorian government has passed some reforms in this area.

[weakfish]

That’s… not what they said, you’re putting words in their mouth

[SecondHandTofu]

It's the opposite in the UK. Most landlords are individuals, own one or maybe a couple of properties.

It's awful, rogue landlords who do everything they can to not do repairs or improvements and when they do it often comes after a long time. Often as they have underestimated all the expenses they're liable for and find that the profit is not very much.

Give me a company that owns a whole block every day, they've modelled the risk better, have economies of scale, and you have more recourse against them.

[mmooss]

IME companies are worse: professional investors highly focused on maximizing profits - driving up rent and minimizing costs - rather than a long-term investment by someone with another job, a sidelight and retirement plan.

I don't see how you have more recourse against a company with lawyers that can ignore you, and mom-and-pop. The latter are much more likely to respond to reason.

Of course, any landlord can be bad.

[seanmcdirmid]

> I feel like there will be a difference between a handful of large corporations owning a majority of properties vs thousands of dentists and software engineers. Are you saying that all of these property owners are also soulless profit-optimizers?

Do we want to trade crazy high prices in the American real estate market for absolutely crazier high prices in the Australian real estate market?

That is a bit simplistic though, there could be other things going on in Australia, and all the other rich countries (e.g. Switzerland, England, China) where American prices look like a good value. I'm sure at the end of the day supply is the main factor, and not having a hot economy also helps, so I'm sure the USA will get there fairly quickly.

[ghaff]

And, everywhere, it's about people wanting to live in some specific cities. Even a bit outside of those specific locations isn't necessarily particularly expensive. (Leaving aside ski resorts, especially nice college towns, and the like).

[seanmcdirmid]

I don't know...some countries are just expensive full stop. Lausanne for example, and since public transportation is good enough, you can live outside of the city and still get to work...so those places just get expensive also.

Australia I assume you mean the few places where people actually live in the country vs. the undeveloped outback?

[ghaff]

I don't really have specific knowledge of Australia but within an hour or so radius of Boston/Cambridge (expensive cities), there are reasonably priced exurbs. (Also expensive suburbs/exurbs of course.)

[rgmerk]

Australia is so big that there's still plenty of land available where you could build new cities (and not just in the desert).

It's just that everyone[1], given a choice, would like to live near the beach in Sydney's eastern suburbs[2], and there is most definitely no more land available in those suburbs. So the only alternative is to build up, and the boomers sitting in their multi-million dollar houses that were originally bought for $3.95 don't like that prospect one bit.

[1] Not everyone, but you get the point.

[2] and Melbourne's inner east, and the desirable parts of Brisbane and Perth.