[andersonpico]

their cynicism is perfectly understandable once you correctly identified the demographics (which you did), so I'm not sure why you're holding pessimism against poor people with a bleak future; like it or not that's far more anchored in reality than anything around these parts, as there are far more people with "bottom rung jobs" than software developers and VC investors in the bay area.

[tjwebbnorfolk]

Most people in the US begin life poor, and most of them are not poor forever. I wouldn't call this a "bleak future". I was definitely poor when I was 18, but I wasn't pessimistic. Pessimism at such a young age is almost always a mistake.

[overfeed]

> Most people in the US begin life poor, and most of them are not poor forever

Thank heavens young Americans can look forward to a $63k/year median income when they are employed full-time.

[lbrito]

Social mobility is decreasing since the 1980s. This is increasingly closer to not being true anymore.

[tjwebbnorfolk]

Yes it has decreased from an amazingly high level to only a reasonably good level compared to most of the world's population.

This is no reason for abject pessimism at 18 years old.

[lbrito]

I'd like to challenge that. Historical comparisons aside, looking just at today, if you're saying that social mobility is very good in the USA compared to most of the world, what are you basing that claim on?

I would think something like Gini combined with HDI and GDP per capita, on which the US only fares well on the latter. I found out there is something called Global Social Mobility Index, done by the WEF, and it places the US in 27th.

[tjwebbnorfolk]

Also looking a bit more at the GSMI: a lot of those criteria are based on current social welfare benefits received by the population. Many of which programs are not sustainable in the long run.

Of course the US has less of a social safety net than Norway, a petrostate with trillions of dollars in a national oil endowment, and ~half of their GDP is from fossil fuels. I don't know that I'd want to move to Norway for the kind of "social mobility" that I'm after.

[tjwebbnorfolk]

I'm basing on my assumption vast majority of the world's people would love to be 27th.

And this is borne out in emigration patterns and visa applications...

It feels like we expect to be #1 in every category and we're unable to recognize that the US has it pretty damn good in a lot of important ways. Envy is the thief of happiness.

[layer8]

Or maybe it’s just https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism.

[lukan]

"Pessimism at such a young age is almost always a mistake."

Is pessimism a consciouss choice?

[hn_go_brrrrr]

You can develop pessimism without a conscious choice, but once you become aware of how negative your outlook is, it's a conscious choice to not try to do better.

[bigbadfeline]

Being pessimistic about pessimism is individual-damaging and socially ruinous.

One can develop pessimism about pessimism without a conscious choice, but once you become aware of how negative your outlook on pessimism is, it's a conscious choice to not try to figure out the different meanings of that word and how important it is for the proper functioning of democracy.

Maybe read Orwell for a glimpse of mandatory optimism:

"The Ministry of Love was the really frightening one... Winston turned round abruptly. He had set his features into the expression of quiet optimism which it was advisable to wear when facing the telescreen.

[tjwebbnorfolk]

Indeed most choices we think we "make" are unconscious choices due to our environment. That does not mean we cannot introspect and learn and consciously change them.

I am much more pessimistic generally than I was 20 years ago. But that's something I work on, not something I accept passively as a fact of life.

[carlosjobim]

Yes. It is mostly because of environment, and you can change your environment.

[artur_makly]

with some it's an celebrated lifestyle: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPCJpclgW04/

[wavemode]

The subtext is that most Redditors have significantly better lives than 90% of people on Earth.

Life is bleak if you perceive it to be bleak.

[_DeadFred_]

You mean most Redditors live in a country with a higher GDP than 90% of people on Earth. That doesn't necessarily translate into 'significantly better lives', especially in a country with wealth gaps such as the USA has.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiymTzsZfoA

[kelseyfrog]

Who in the world has it worst? I want to make sure I listen to the right person.

[groundzeros2015]

You act like this is an enigma. Let’s start with people without college degrees and no family history of college degrees.

[kelseyfrog]

Surely there are people who have it worse than that, no?

[mikkupikku]

It isn't necessary to identify the world's most unfortunate person to recognize that most redditors have privileged lives, yet choose to wallow in misery.

[kelseyfrog]

I just choose to not let what redditors do bother me.

[next_xibalba]

To wit, the vast majority of them have:

- easy access to clean water

- sufficient calories

- safe shelter

- education (presumably they can read and write if they’re on Reddit)

- internet access

- free time (can’t be writing nasty comments on Reddit if you’re swinging a pick axe in a coal mine)

Many of these things can’t be claimed by millions in the world.

And yet, it’s one of the most cynical, negative places on the internet.

[_DeadFred_]

This is not the 1950s. Most American's have internet, where they can see average people living lives around the world. Their houses may be a bit worse, but their cars are normally newer, they have internet, they have FAMILY. They have vibrant COMMUNITY. They have free time.

[306bobby]

Are you not agreeing with their point?

Everything you listed are reasons NOT to be so cynical

[fwip]

It depends on how you measure quality of life.

[mikkupikku]

I can't afford the yacht lifestyle enjoyed by Jeff Bezos, so my life is ruined. #EatTheRich

[goatlover]

More like the super rich have huge influence over politics and can buy media companies to push their preferred narrative. Elon being the most visible example.

[mikkupikku]

I'm not a member of the richest most powerful group of people ever, and my government falls far short of the ideal I envision, therefore I cannot possibly enjoy my life.

[RiverCrochet]

Who at this point trusts any media anymore?

[fwip]

See, that's just using the same measuring rod. If you measure quality of life by income, yes, even poor Americans live good lives compared to the rest of the world.

There are many other factors you could evaluate it on, though, and many of them are harder to quantify. Stuff like personal agency, status, leisure time, social life, community cohesion, etc.

[patcon]

> like it or not that's far more anchored in reality than anything around these parts

TRUTH.

[groundzeros2015]

I don’t think Reddit is representative of poor people. It skews educated and white collar.