[p1mrx]

If this is true, it's possible that the technology is from Nordic Nano. That would at least explain how a motor/software company could pull a battery out of thin air:

https://www.donutlab.com/nordic-nano-investment/

Their chief scientist is working on solar-powered hydrogen production, which seems fairly unrelated to solid state batteries:

https://www.nordicnano.co/chief-scientist-bela-bhuskute-will...

Though TiO2 nanoparticles appear to be relevant to battery research in general:

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsaem.3c02304

[dm808]

Yes, it is from Nordic Nano.

It is nanoprinted and trivially scalable. Free of lithium, cadmium, lead, and cobalt. Uses abundant raw materials free from geopolitical constraints. https://yle.fi/a/74-20118784

Factory in Finland, started around Q3/2025. https://yle.fi/a/74-20180376

Verge Motorcycles bike with the new battery at CES, apparently at West Hall 5658. Video: https://youtu.be/vmsxYznW9Fs

Donut Lab booth here: https://www.ces.tech/events/ces-unveiled-las-vegas/exhibitor...

[dust42]

> It is nanoprinted and trivially scalable.

Nanoprinted snakeoil - infinitely scalable. Good enough to grab 3M€ public grants and some more from gullible private investors.

Honestly, if they had the tiniest proof of their claims (400Wh/kg, 5min 0-100%, operating temp -30°C to 100°C, no Li/Co/Mn and somebody looking at the production and taking the output to the test) they would be absolutely drowned in money to the point that sama would become jealous.

> Factory in Finland, started around Q3/2025. https://yle.fi/a/74-20180376

That is only a picture of a factory building. They are 100% greenwash grant grabbers with no real substance. There are plenty of these people in Europe. The motorcycle is likely in China designed and produced.

If grant grabbing is what you'd consider a fulfilling life, then come to Europe - it will be an El Dorado for you.

[aeonfox]

I guess we can't really know that it's real until this guy gets hold of a whole bunch to test

https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse

[dm808]

https://www.cnvc.org/store/nonviolent-communication-a-langua...

[dust42]

Here some info about the claim of 600km/344m range of Verge motor cycles as it was said and shown in the video. The website of Verge bikes states the following:

City estimate 600km: "The city estimate calculated by Verge aims to provide a reasonable approximation of calm stop-and-go riding in an urban environment at low speeds. The estimate assumes a 75 kg rider and ideal riding conditions in terms of temperature, wind and tire pressure. Actual range varies based on exact riding conditions, riding style and other factors."

Highway estimate 315km: "The highway estimate calculated by Verge aims to provide a reasonable approximation of steady and consistent highway riding at a speed of 90 km/h. The estimate assumes a 75 kg rider and ideal riding conditions in terms of temperature, wind and tire pressure."

Now: "aims to provide a reasonable approximation" is legalese for "we pulled these numbers out of thin air - they are in no way legally binding".

For proper testing according to "EU Regulation 134/2014, Annex VII" the website says 'TBC'. This would be legally binding but -surprise, surprise- they haven't yet found time to do it.

For any practical purpose the range will be between 200km to 250km. Also the bike is not easy to handle due to the high mass distribution to the outside of the wheel.

Btw, the vendor from Verge motorcycles states in the video 80% charge in "about 10 minutes" instead of 100% in 5min. So which one is true? I stand by my claim that this is marketing for gullible buyers and investors.

[subscribed]

Out of all the possible angles to attack the product you chose some really weird ones.

Bike in question: https://gearjunkie.com/motors/verge-motorcycles-ts-solid-sta...

- range: it's quite.... obvious this is naked and not a sport bike, so the air resistance (or Cx if you prefer) will be very high. Compare any super sport with any naked bike. It's just the profile.

- charging time/rate: you compare maximum hardware capabilities of the raw battery with a vehicle, set up for longevity. Look, there are reasons I don't charge my 18650 batteries with their maximum 5C current, but at a gentle, slow rate. Virtually all the electric cars have default maximum charge set to 80-90% - not because a car maker lied

- and finally handling: we have yet to see it tested, an you already categorically claim this bike will not be easy to handle because of the "high mass distribution to the outside of the wheel" - i refer you to the pictures above. Almost all the mass is low or central to the bike. Just perfect. Far from the awkward, top heavy adv bikes some people ride. Also claimed 1000Nm / 130 HP is far beyond the usual beginner segment, so I'd expect experienced riders will handle it easily.

All in all - maybe your expectations re:battery are true and it's all snake oil. But using the bike as a proof of the falsehood based on your GUESS is not acting in a good faith.

[dust42]

> you compare maximum hardware capabilities of the raw battery with a vehicle, set up for longevity. Look, there are reasons I don't charge my 18650 batteries with their maximum 5C current, but at a gentle, slow rate. Virtually all the electric cars have default maximum charge set to 80-90% - not because a car maker lied

But that is exactly what the CEO claims in the video [1]: "This pack charges in as low a 5min and is still build for longevity [Video shows time lapse of charging from 0%-100%]. You can fast charge every single day for years. [...] It is designed for 100,000 cycles"

Especially for motorcycles that definitely would be a game changer: 5 minute stop to top up to 100% while stretching your legs...

And the guy from Verge Motorcycles says: "A new long range version delivering up to 600km of real world range."

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-aPS2AwMbc @ 10:54 the 600km statement @ 12:59 the talk about the charging

[chrsw]

I agree. If this were real, it would be a much bigger deal. They're preying on people's hopes.

[DontBreakAlex]

Look, non-nonviolent communication is a valid form of protest (I know what I'm talking about, I'm french)

[dm808]

Ok, but what is the French view on whether substance is a desirable component of communication?

[lazide]

Have you seen any French films?

[zooweemama]

This is an honest question for my understanding: how would a scam like this work? Take investor money and spend it on yourself? Or give yourself an outrageous salary?

[dust42]

I wouldn't call it an outright scam. But yes, you pay yourself a nice salary, travel around the world to meet potential OEMs, you may fly in private jets, you stay in fancy hotels, you have business meetings in Michelin star restaurants.

The motorcycle is real, you can buy it.

I worked for a company in Germany in 2024 and the CEO was quite open about using public grant money as a free gift. The company wasn't build around it but it was a significant part of income. He made engineers sign papers that they had worked on some AI stuff which they didn't. A demonstrator was made with yolo by an intern. He said they have just no competency to figure that out and also that they actually don't want to figure it out.

Or look at the EuroLLM: sounds good on paper, never heard about it again. Grant grabbing is a real industry in Europe with companies specialised on creating grant applications and forming consortiums.

[aeonfox]

> The motorcycle is real, you can buy it.

Pretty major point of difference though isn't it? They claim this will be out there in Q1 2026, giving a chance for sceptics and industry professionals to tear it down. If this is really the long con, they'd at least give a little time for the cheques to clear before their wild claims could be assessed?

The other possibility is that they have very little moat with this new battery tech, because it's so easy to manufacture. Being the first mover might be their only play, and it's only a matter of time before someone else figures it out (or it leaks).

[glemion43]

They "lie" but it's helping the company to get more money because they basically solved it in the lab.

Independent of were they are it will Help them to get more money.

And it either leads to success or firing and lost capital

[twnaing]

> Lehtimaki even serves as a board member at Nordic Nano, but says that’s not the source of this product. “It’s not from them,” he says.

- [Is this the world’s first solid-state battery? - The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/transportation/858514/is-this-the-w...)

[anttisalmela]

> The company aims to have the pre-production equipment needed to manufacture prototypes operational by the end of this (2025) year. Actual production is scheduled to begin in late summer 2026.

Well, maybe there's enough prototype production for motor cycles.

[Animats]

The Nordic Nano connection is strange. Here's their web site.[1] They claim to make solar panel coatings, solid state batteries, and do something involving hydrogen. This is all done from a little metal building in a small town on the east coast of Finland near the Russian border. There's no detail on any of this technology.

One Youtuber thinks this is a capacitor, not a battery. But that would require a dielectric orders of magnitude better than anything known.

Donut won't talk about either the chemistry or the manufacturing. The only thing they showed at CES was one pouch cell hooked up to a charger at 4.2V, drawing current. Everything else was a 3D printed mockup or an existing electric motorcycle.

[1] https://www.nordicnano.co/

[Jommi]

They had a presentation with data also few months ago https://spacefinland.fi/documents/60305973/246671122/Kaisa_A...

[veb]

Some more info I noticed over on X which might shed some more light: https://x.com/shortl2021/status/2008554842332225705

[dm808]

More details:

https://x.com/VoltaWagen/status/2008620031450706132?s=20

https://x.com/VoltaWagen/status/2008620565704438239?s=20

https://x.com/VoltaWagen/status/2008617905362018630?s=20

https://x.com/VoltaWagen/status/2008625662480068957?s=20

[Jommi]

thats AI generated, please flag it