[kypro]

That's good to hear. As a European, I do hope our leaders keep this in mind... It may be an unconventional move, but it's hard to argue this is a bad outcome.

I get the concern about forever wars some are raising, but this clearly isn't going to be a forever war for the reasons you state. Plus if the US secures some oil and the Venezuela people get to live better lives, that's ultimately a great outcome for everyone.

It's controversial to say these days, but I think this is exactly how the West should be using it's military force – to promote democracy and freedom around the world.

[hvb2]

> I get the concern about forever wars some are raising, but this clearly isn't going to be a forever war for the reasons you state. Plus if the US secures some oil

Why would the US be entitled to any oil here? And how would that be a good outcome for the people of Venezuela?

> and the Venezuela people get to live better lives, that's ultimately a great outcome for everyone.

That's a big if. Ask the Iraqis how well it went when their dictator was gone. And that was with boots on the ground not just leaving a power vacuum like this.

> It's controversial to say these days, but I think this is exactly how the West should be using it's military force – to promote democracy and freedom around the world.

Wait a few decades till China does this to you and we'll see how you feel.

[simianparrot]

China will and is doing this through their own means. I’d rather our guys, with the values I hold, win and get there first.

If you think the EU’s “diplomacy over force” approach will deter anyone, look at Ukraine.

[hvb2]

I meant does this to the US or any other country. The precedent that's being set is that you can just fly in and kidnap a head of state that you disagree with.

> If you think the EU’s “diplomacy over force” approach will deter anyone, look at Ukraine.

Enlighten me, what's the policy of the USA as of last year? Because I honestly don't know. It depends who the guy last talked to. That's American foreign policy now, no plan, all based on the irrational behavior of an 80 year old.

[simianparrot]

I think it's pretty clear based on the intent. We are not privy to the details of policy making, we are only privy to what is actually shared publicly.

The _intent_ of the policies seem to be "treat the US better as a trading partner than you have under Biden, or get punished in ways that hit you the hardest", usually via tariffs or other means. NATO members have exploited the US with lopsided investment in the alliance under Biden, and many European countries had really bad trading agreements with the US -- bad for the US, not for us. I'm surprised we got away with it for this long.

[hvb2]

You do realize the guy also ripped up the trade deal with Mexico and Canada, right?

That was negotiated by whom again? Oh, right, trump in his first term...

So the only conclusion I can draw is that he's like a toddler. If you give him what he wants he'll want more. That's foreign policy now.

Also, NATO has seen article 5 invoked once. By the US and it's allies helped out after 9/11. So it hasn't been too bad for the US. I don't disagree with the fact that a lot of European countries should've been spending 2% of GDP though all along

[the_overseer]

You will quickly discover that the values that you hold and the values that they hold are not at all similar. They were just pretending to get your support. And after they no longer need the useful idiot guess what will happen to you?

[simianparrot]

I’m a Norwegian. But had I voted for Trump as an American I would so far have gotten what I wanted. He’s doing exactly what he ran on; still a lot of work left to do, particularly on the real economy of the average Joe (stonks aren’t real IMO), but he’s fixed the border, made America respected, working for the American people’s future. Removing at least some wasteful government spending and getting rid of illegals.

If only Norway had the political system to allow something similar…

[the_af]

> made America respected

Did he? Or did you mean "feared"? So "respect" in the Machiavellian sense of the word?

A lot of people now dealing with Trump, even his allies, seem to be walking on egg shells, trying not to say something that angers him, appeasing him with adulation and false praise, and trying very hard to remind him "we're all friends". Much like one would treat a dangerous guys who happens to be holding a gun.

[joseda-hg]

A forever war implies people in the ground that actually would want to resist, and barring conscription (Which will be limited, because diaspora) I don't see how that could actually work

Check social media or go ask a trusted Venezuelan / Latino, happiest I've ever seen the community, because regardless of what's comming, it looks like the light at the end of a tunnel

[hoppp]

And bomb civilians?

[the_af]

> Plus if the US secures some oil and the Venezuela people get to live better lives, that's ultimately a great outcome for everyone.

Agreed about the better lives, but has it come to a point we accept invading other countries to "secure their oil" is a great outcome? I mean, what is this, Hitler's "Operation Blue"?

Securing oil is NOT a valid reason to invade countries. Does this need to be said!? Mind boggling.

This is peak cynicism. I'm really surprised to read some opinions here.

Next up: "imperialism wasn't bad, securing a big empire with colonies is a great outcome".