[DanielVZ]

Risking being downvoted to oblivion but as a South American this is a way more complex situation morally speaking.

Law-wise I agree and it has set an awful precedent.

But in the other hand Venezuelans all over the world (certainly the Venezuelans here that I know) are celebrating. I myself am in some way relieved. This is a dictator that did unspeakable things to their own population, set proxy criminal organizations, sent hitmen to kill dissidents in my country, highly decreasing our perceived safety.

So one part of my heart is glad. Plenty of Venezuelans are. I just hope they are quick to either put Corina Machado in charge or call for elections and at last bring true freedom to that country.

[JKCalhoun]

"I just hope they are quick to either put Corina Machado in charge or call for elections and at last bring true freedom to that country."

Yeah, what happens next is kind of the sticky part. That and "unintended consequences".

[z3c0]

The Shah and the current state of Iran comes to mind.

[DanielVZ]

No. The most similar precedent was the Panama invasion and arrest of Noriega.

[cmrdporcupine]

Willing to completely give up domestic control of your energy sector in exchange for this regime change?

Because that's what has actually happened here.

It's not like there will be peaceful and organized elections now. The template from US actions in Latin America in the past is: A puppet regime will be installed and it will be involved in heavy domestic oppression of its own.

[e-khadem]

> Willing to completely give up domestic control of your energy sector in exchange for this regime change?

You're saying this as if they (the people) had any control before.

A military intervention should always be the last resort. Two examples of military intervention / occupation working out in the long run are Germany and Japan in WW2. Maybe even South Korea (stabilization of a dictatorship and economic development lead to a democratic revolution later). One can be hopeful that this starts a better chapter for the Venezuelians as well.

[wsatb]

> Two examples of military intervention / occupation working out in the long run are Germany and Japan in WW2. Maybe even South Korea (stabilization of a dictatorship and economic development lead to a democratic revolution later). One can be hopeful that this starts a better chapter for the Venezuelians as well.

Ignoring the fact that we have been using these examples for decades now as reasoning for going to war, these were all done after years of war. What makes you so convinced that this is "over" and the Venezuelean people can live happily ever after? History says it's far from over.

[kristopolous]

I'm in LA.

The Persian expats here want us to Bomb Iran. The Vietnam expats want us to go back Into Vietnam. The Cubans want us to go take over Cuba again.

People who flee country X to the global hegemon seem to be in support of invading country X.

It's a selection bias. Kinda like saying everyone who walked out on their job at company X doesn't think much of company X.

I mean heck, you can probably find Canadians who fled for one reason or another and want America to invade Canada.

I really don't put any credence into that perspective and have been trying to explain this to my Venezuelan friends that this is simply an oil grab.

They don't get it.

[DanielVZ]

The Venezuelan diaspora is of approximately 8 million people. The current Venezuelan population is around 28 million. That’s a huge percentage of the population you a disregarding. And note that most still have relatives in their country of origin and they are also supportive of US intervention. At the end the oil is the least of their concerns. It’s easy to disregard them from a moral and legal point of view, but the suffering of this whole continent because of that dictator is very real.

[kristopolous]

The administration that has been saber rattling about "Tren de Aragua" and has had dozens of deportation flights of venezuelan refugees...

let me get this clear: you think this administration is somehow simultaneously raiding and deporting people to a place they are so empathetic to the refugee and asylum claim of that they are bombing it for humanity while also rejecting the asylum claims?

The administration that is pardoning major drug traffickers but bombs boats on a theory of importing a drug that they do not make. Then they destroy all the evidence that could support their claim?

This has nothing to do with the fact that this country has more proven oil than Saudi Arabia? Or their chosen successor María Corina Machado wants to privatize oil on day 1, that's just you know, random noise?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oi...

Iran is oil. Somalia is oil. Venezuela is oil. That bizarre Christmas strike in Nigeria a few days ago? oil.

When Trump said in Nov that killing Khashoggi wasn't a problem to MBS, his weird idea about making Canada the 51st state...

That Greenland thing? About reversing this ... https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/greenlan...

You can solve all Trump foreign policy mysteries with one weird trick.

People like to say "no, this is all very nuanced". I mean come on... Is Trump quoting Frantz Fanon and Hedley Bull? I mean what planet do you live on. This is a man with a golden toilet that eats at mcdonalds.

He's a crude man.

[CompoundEyes]

The rare earth minerals as well https://venezuelanalysis.com/infographics/subsoil-bonanza-ve...

[pknerd]

> The Persian expats here want us to Bomb Iran. The Vietnam expats want us to go back Into Vietnam. The Cubans want us to go take over Cuba again.

Because the world sees your government as a bully.

[kristopolous]

It is. Members of the imperial core will always find a way to rationalize their imperial brutality.

I mean I'd like to imagine that expats see through it but actually maybe they are less likely since they took great sacrifice to come to the US while I am merely an american because of the geography of my birth.

[dredmorbius]

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20473862>

[DanielVZ]

Got it. Forgot that rule.

[slekker]

Exactly this, as a Colombian with many friends who fled Venezuela, the consensus is that the means aren't good but it's looking like a great outcome for democracy (might be too early to tell)

[adastra22]

As an American, I’m outraged at this blatant disregard for international norms.

As a person living in the Americas… I’m surprised at how good this outcome is? Did we just remove a terrible regime in a comparably bloodless way?

This appears to be a prisoner’s dilemma. What just happened is probably a utilitarian win. But the president it sets could enable horrible abuses in the future.

[oncallthrow]

> As a person living in the Americas… I’m surprised at how good this outcome is? Did we just remove a terrible regime in a comparably bloodless way?

It's way too early to tell this. I mean, hopefully yes, but it's way, way too early to tell.

[mjd]

That's also how it seemed after the Iraq invasion and the removal of Saddam Hussein. “Once we get rid of the bad guy at the top, everything in Iraq will get better.”

It didn't turn out well. I hope this one turns out better.

[Lapel2742]

> Did we just remove a terrible regime in a comparably bloodless way?

You captured Maduro in an blatantly illegal act of war and until now the Regime is still there.

I hope for the people in Venezuela that this will end without a bloodshed. AFAIK Maduro has still support, especially in the poorer part of the population.

[weird-eye-issue]

As an American I would hope you know how to properly use the words prisoners dilemma and president

[clvx]

Same as you. This piece of shit needed to be gone. I've seen Venezuelans begging for food, money and shelter in geographic areas where you wouldn't even imagine due the exodus. I've seen South American communities orbiting xenophobia on Venezuelans because the lack of opportunities of immigrants where almost impossible in countries where there weren't any for many of the current residents.

[CapricornNoble]

>So one part of my heart is glad. Plenty of Venezuelans are. I just hope they are quick to either put Corina Machado in charge or call for elections and at last bring true freedom to that country.

Putting her in charge just means that the country will get looted by the Western Parasite Capitalist class instead of the South American Socialist Mobster class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMt1TDA848M