[Retric]

For almost everyone with home charging, EV’s are a substantial win even without subsidies. There’s so many little wins like being able to turn the car on to warm up in a garage without filling it with exhaust. That’s a long way from every driver, but the EV industry doesn’t need to make up every car sale to survive just fine.

ICE cars can’t get vastly better they are simply too close to fundamental limits. It’s quickly becoming a competition between hybrids and EV’s.

[rapidfl]

That's my point about ICE not innovating enough. And of course hybrid would be one of the innovations. Also it should have more electronic luxuries and connectivity to match the newly designed EVs. Hybrids would carry a bigger battery that can pre warm without engine running.

ICE itself is close to fundamental limits. But iiuc other parts like frames and chasis are not, like they could be lighter and stronger.

ICE cars have bigger mileage than equivalent EVs? Meaning you fill gas once every few weeks in 5 mins.

> EV’s are a substantial win even without subsidies

Why are they subsidized then? It is somehow better than no subsidies from the company's viewpoint.

[Retric]

> Meaning you fill gas once every few weeks in 5 mins.

Home charging supplies more energy with less cost and effort. It’s physically impossible for ICE cars to win here as I will park at home and stay at home for a while, I don’t need to go to a gas station and then stand around for a few minutes.

> Why are they subsidized then?

Initially it was all about helping the technology become competitive, which it has.

As to why it’s a good idea, ICE cars have negative externalities due to tailpipe emissions. Much like cigarettes burning stuff = public health hazard. Mandatory catalytic converters help, but as I benefit when you buy an EV instead of a ICE car I don’t mind chipping in for some of the cost of an EV.

The alternative of simply taxing ICE engines or gas etc would be equally effective tool, just harder to pass politically.

[rapidfl]

The negative externality of EV car manufacturing seems net worse (today) per car. Harsher chemicals, more mining, more processing, lesser life of a car and battery, less mature tech so more wastage, etc.

Tesla might be responsible but almost all other EVs are likely externalizing a lot in their supply chain.

Anyway according to Gemini: ``` In the U.S., a typical EV becomes "cleaner" than a gas car after about 15,000 to 20,000 miles (roughly 1.5 to 2 years of driving).

If your primary concern is climate change, the EV is the clear winner after about 1.5 years. If your concern is local land/human rights impact, the EV has a heavier "upfront" cost that requires better regulation to solve. ```

EV is the way to go but is it going to scale sustainably to say 25% or more of all cars? Apparently yes, with the new battery tech in the pipeline.

[Retric]

> Harsher chemicals, more mining, more processing, lesser life of a car and battery, less mature tech so more wastage, etc.

Extracting, manufacturing, and transporting gas more than offsets those differences. Oil refineries are nasty not to mention mid to large scale oil spills.

> EV is the way to go but is it going to scale sustainably to say 25% or more of all cars?

EV’s are already 20% of global sales, will it scale isn’t some deep question 5x current production would be completely replacing ICE cars.