[ericmay]

Tariffs aren’t the same thing as suppressing wages, overproduction, government subsidies, and managed currency to prevent deflation.

In the case of the US with respect to China they are mostly a retaliation to the above anti-competitive practices.

But I hear you on who is playing their cards better. I don’t think China is playing theirs very well. They pissed off both the US and EU, and even Mexico is enacting tariffs on Chinese products. American and European countries are taking action to stop Chinese anti-competitive practices. Nice factories you have there, too bad there’s nobody to sell those products to.

I also don’t know what you mean when you say for example the US and Germany are suppressing wages. I’m interested in what you mean by that specifically.

[StopDisinfo910]

> They pissed off both the US and EU, and even Mexico

I'm sure they are in shamble knowing they made their main rival mad.

Apart from some moderate posturing to appease the US and a bit of moderate protectionism, the EU is still very much a trade partner however. A casual look at all the new Chinese brand factories in Hungary probably tell you everything you need to know.

Meanwhile they dominate the South American, African and South-East Asian markets.

> American and European countries are taking action to stop Chinese anti-competitive practices.

Personally, as a European, I would really appreciate if American started by stopping their own anti-competitive practices. It's objectively worse than what China is doing.

> I also don’t know what you mean when you say for example the US and Germany are suppressing wages.

Germany is suppressing wages. They have been doing so since the 2000s. It's indolore for them because their money can't appreciate as it's anchored by the rest of the union. It's terrible for the other members however especially considering Germany doesn't reinvest their surplus in the union.

[ericmay]

> Apart from some moderate posturing to appease the US and a bit of moderate protectionism, the EU is still very much a trade partner however. A casual look at all the new Chinese brand factories in Hungary probably tell you everything you need to know.

The US is still a trade partner too, but this will change to a varying degree (as it will with the EU) over the next 5-10 years as both blocs move away from Chinese imports. You really nailed it though with your comment - China has to build the factory and staff local Hungarians precisely because the EU will continue to mandate that to continue to sell products in the market factories and jobs will have to be created in the EU.

The EU is extremely protectionist. As is China. Much more so than the United States. A lot of folks look at tariffs and then think the US is protectionist but that’s not the case, more so it has been very friendly toward the exact anti-competitive tactics that the EU and China have engaged in until only recently. To be clear the US of course has its own protectionist policies like the Jones Act, but it has been a much more easy country to do business in and much more tolerable to losing factories and such.

> Personally, as a European, I would really appreciate if American started by stopping their own anti-competitive practices. It's objectively worse than what China is doing.

It’s not. But these comments are boring. aS ‘MurICAN EuRope SHOuld PAY 4 defEncE. That’s what these comments sound like. It feels good to say, and it makes you feel like you know the real deal, but it’s such a banal thing to say that it’s barely worth saying.

“America shouldn’t pay for Europeans defenses”

But but here is all these ways it benefits you too, and of course we should pay more to meet it obligations but.. and… we all agree on this… and we help you with your international endeavors and we stand by you on trade, and you can count on us and… … yes but..

“America is the same thing as China’

But but no we’re not, we have a shared history, and… but despite the current admin we also uphold international law… and yes… but… look… we have your factories making your cars here in the US and we sell you software… and … but..

When you shoot off one line sentences that feel good, you miss out on actually interesting and productive conversations.

> Germany is suppressing wages.

How exactly?

[StopDisinfo910]

> The EU is extremely protectionist. As is China. Much more so than the United States

Well tried but no, not even close. Presenting tariffs as a tit-for-tat is Trump government propaganda. It's baseless however and as connected to facts as looking at the trade balance for goods while ignoring services.

> It’s not. But these comments are boring. aS ‘MurICAN EuRope SHOuld PAY 4 defEncE.

It is. Nice stawman with the irrelevant parallel by the way.

America has an aggressive subsidies program targeting European industry (IRA) and high tariff on key part of the export chain notably steel. And I'm not even talking about the political meddling and threat of invasion by your government.

China is honestly a significantly more reliable trade partner at this point.

> How exactly?

The Hartz reforms.

[eru]

What is 'overproduction'?

[ericmay]

It depends, but in the case of China it’s producing Temu stuff (electronics that fail immediately, t-shirts that dissolve when washed, &c.) because they need to 1. Run other companies outside of China out of business, 2. Keep people employed even if what they produce is worth less than their labor and energy/materials input.

[eru]

People seem to like Temu stuff and want to buy it.

> 1. Run other companies outside of China out of business

Why?

> 2. Keep people employed even if what they produce is worth less than their labor and energy/materials input.

Why don't they have them do something with positive utility, like sweeping streets or providing elder care, or a myriad of other jobs?

[ericmay]

People like all sorts of dumb things. Temu and these cheap crap products have a lot of problems, and quality is only the tip of th4 iceberg.

> Why?

Are you asking why they’re doing it?

> Why don't they have them do something with positive utility, like sweeping streets or providing elder care, or a myriad of other jobs?

They do, but they need people to be working in manufacturing facilities too, otherwise the gig is up. You can’t have millions or tens of millions of people sweeping streets all day - better to give them the illusion that the future is better by having them build and ship products.

[eru]

> People like all sorts of dumb things. Temu and these cheap crap products have a lot of problems, and quality is only the tip of th4 iceberg.

If people are buying it voluntarily, who are we to judge?

Ice cream also only lasts a single use and is gone afterwards, and no one complains.

> Are you asking why they’re doing it?

Sorry, I should have quoted more.

> because they need to 1. Run other companies outside of China out of business,

Why do they 'need to' run other companies out of business? What need do they have?

> They do, but they need people to be working in manufacturing facilities too, otherwise the gig is up. You can’t have millions or tens of millions of people sweeping streets all day - better to give them the illusion that the future is better by having them build and ship products.

Maybe. Sweeping streets was but one example. There's lots of other positive utility things to do, even in manufacturing.