[spectralista]

I just got back from the gym and it was surprisingly empty. Actually, more empty than normal.

My experience from lifting now for 30+ years and seeing thousands of people lift is it is: 1. Genetics.

Everything else is a distant second or third. This was actually something that was widely understood in 90s bodybuilding magazines. Lifting is mostly a display of genetics. That worked when you could sell magazines of genetic freaks working out. Without the magazines you have to sell all this nonsense like 1 gram per lb of protein. Even though I know the early research was 1 gram per kilo and then Americans just changed that to 1 gram per lb. I mean it is just such obvious nonsense that the optimal amount would happen to be the exact integer amount vs body weight that is easiest to remember, how convenient for people who sell protein lol. duh.

[d357r0y3r]

It really is just mostly this, and social media has tricked people into thinking otherwise.

I was looking at some photos of myself about 10 years ago. At the time, I had been hitting the gym hard, consistently, and intelligently. I had a huge bench press, squad, and deadlift, and was lifting 4-5 days a week, and managed every facet of my diet.

Now, I'm older, have kids, don't sleep as much, and definitely don't make it to the gym as much. I might lift twice a week - and don't try very hard or do progressive overload at all - and try to get in 3-4 days of cardio.

And I honestly don't look very different. Muscles are roughly the same size. In clothes, most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

[patmorgan23]

Counter argument, muscle maintenance is a lot easier than muscle growth. Of course you don't look that different now, you have done enough work to significantly change your physique, but done plenty to maintain.

[machomaster]

Muscle memory is a real thing.

Gaining it is hard and slow, but once you do it, you can easily maintain it with very low volume (1 time a week with very reduced volume/weights). And even if you don't train for years/decades, you still rapidly get it back once you start again.

That's why one of the best investments in people health should be weight training during the teenage years/20s. Getting muscles and strength is the easiest at that point of life, and you will reap the benefits for the rest of one's life.

[Mawr]

You've lost your sense of perspective. You might lift twice a week and try to get in 3-4 days of cardio? You're in the top <1% people on this planet by fitness.

[swat535]

Genetics play a factor, but you can still look pretty good, feel great if you consistently go to the gym, lift heavy weights and eat your calories.

You won't look like Arnold as there are genetic factors at play but people shouldn't be discouraged in thinking they won't be able to achieve a good body.

Another factor, that I think many men forget (I can't speak for women), is their testosterone levels. If you are following everything and have no results I recommend that you have your levels tested. Many men are suffering from Hypogonadism without realizing it. I had this issue for years and when I did my tests, I was at 7.6 nmol/L !

My doctor put me on HCG and it was like night and day.

[astura]

>social media has tricked people into thinking otherwise

I assume most fitness influencers on social media are on steroids.

[h2zizzle]

Can sort of confirm. I wouldn't say so much "genetics" as "constitution". That is, you're born with a set of attributes, and those can also be affected by circumstances outside of your control. Those come together to determine how you respond to exercise and whether you can exercise consistently at all. Someone with active and athletic parents who was affected by undiagnosed childhood diseases and poorly managed injuries (*cough*) is going to have health and performance problems that keep them out of the gym. Someone who builds muscle very slowly but who can just keep at it for 10, 15 years is going to be jacked.

We also don't account for the role of money in these things. Do you make enough to buy good food, afford a decent gym that you can visit regularly, afford a good doctor who can help you manage issues (such as, ahem, low testosterone)?, afford a low-uncontrolled-stress lifestyle? You're good. It's a lot harder when you get hit by roadblocks and don't have the money to resolve them before you've detrained.

[Blackthorn]

> My experience from lifting now for 30+ years and seeing thousands of people lift is it is: 1. Genetics.

Also in first place: steroids.

The bodybuilding magazines loved to talk about genetics because they didn't want to say the quiet part out loud. Nowadays people are more willing to talk about it.

[machomaster]

Steroids, the main excuse of lazy people who are searching for excuses, without realizing that the main problem is their own attitude based on the mistaken pattern of comparing yourself to unreachable elite instead of to ordinary folks and to your former self.

1. Compare only to former yourself (you can't even know your genetic potential until you start training). Did you improve? Yes? Great, continue. No? Change something.

2. Go 2-3 times a week consistently for years, hitting major muscle groups 2-4 times a week.

3. Work as hard as you can (with safe technique). Consistency and effort is the biggest problem why people don't see results. Most people in the commercial gyms are not training hard enough.

4. Progressive overload. Once you get stronger, your weights/reps/sets should also increase.

5. Eat enough protein. Eat calories according to your goal (gaining muscle or losing fat).

6. Reduce stress. Recover. Sleep, sleep, sleep.

It's really quite simple. Tedious, but simple.

[Blackthorn]

What are you even responding to? I go to the gym and lift and cardio for my own health, but this is this and that is that. If you want to look like the guys featured in the magazines you need steroids. If you want to make a body transformation like actors do you definitely need steroids.

[machomaster]

Looking at the genetically elite people in a magazine, imagining that self can become just as good if only by using steroids, is beyond dumb.

Imagine thinking that the only thing stopping self of become a new Michael Jordan is lack of access to dynamite attached to feet (in order to jump higher).

The dynamite aspect is not the biggest stupidity, even deciding to compare self to elite athletes is moronic. Use celebrities as inspiration, not as a manual.

Ordinary people thinking that they need steroids to look like celebrities is wild for many reasons. For one, no amount of steroids in the world is going to help an average ordinary person to be like people in magazines, let alone compete against elite (with or without steroids).

[Blackthorn]

Nobody said "if only by using steroids", everyone knows those people featured had all of steroids, hard work, and genetics. But to stick our heads in the sand about 1/3 of that does no one any favors. I'm not sure if the current climate of more acceptability around discussing it is a great endpoint, given how many young people are taking some pretty nasty steroids before even turning 20, but let's not pretend a reality doesn't exist.

Bodybuilding as a sport now is in probably the worst place it's ever been. You now have "who can take the most drugs" as part of the contest and you're competing with people who aren't afraid to die at 30.

[giardini]

spectralista says >",,it is: 1. Genetics."<

I learned this young. Our smallish high school had several exceptional athletes who achieved all-state level in their freshman years. They were great but they had to work for it. In basketball we had the usual mix. But one day Dan showed up:

Dan was short but extremely muscular. He was "recruited" by our all-state level fullback who lived in the same neighborhood (circa 1960's). Dan worked at his dad's gas station and didn't want him playing basketball b/c that was one less worker. but Dan loved basketball and played every chance he got, even though his dad would beat the crap out of him regularly for being away from "work". Coach didn't have to be asked again once he saw Dan play - he was a fricking Bob Cousy on the court. Nobody could lay a hand on him - a truly phenomenal player. Coach talked to Dan's dad, worked out a deal and got permission to try a few games.

Our first game with Dan was incredible: like being a soldier alongside Achilles as he slaughtered Trojans! "Pass the ball to Dansy" and the magic happened!

Dan showed up for two games (Dan won them both) but his dad wouldn't allow more.

So Dan was inherently muscular and strong and very coordinated, far more so than any person I'd ever met, with astonishing reflexes, and also a hell of a basketball player. I asked him if he lifted weights and he said he never did.

I concluded that people are different, sometimes very different. Other than that, maybe regular hellacious beatings can make you an incredible athlete.

[RealityVoid]

What? I mean.. seriously, what? There are people with great genetic potential that lives like couch potatoes. What good is having the potential of you don't use it. Genetics is important, but there are many elements and just dropping this here is, IMO, irresponsible, because some people will read this and go... Ah, I'm out of shape because of genetics, nothing I can do, oh well.

[oarfish]

No one claims you can do nothing, exercise has numerous benefits that extend beyond hypertrophy or even strength. i think the point is that you have way less control over the outcome than youd like, because individual responses vary so wildly. You can improve your odds by ticking the usual boxes and finding and following a custom program that works for you, but none of that is going to make as big of a difference than your genetic base.

[Mawr]

Total nonsense. You've taken a very specialized observation and presented it as general truth. Can't do that.

Yes, once you get to the level of being able to compete with others, genetic factors will determine who will do better. This is true in any sport.

But that has no bearing on your average person deciding to go to the gym or not. Just about everyone will experience massive benefits from going to the gym regularly. Most don't have the capacity to compete, but that's not what 99% of people care about.

So the #1 factor is not, in fact, genetics, but doing the thing consistently.

As such, this is irresponsible nonsense to be spreading around.

[trallnag]

hormones can be tweaked despite genetics