[embedding-shape]

I've moved over mostly to uv too, using `uv pip` when needed but mostly sticking with `uv add`. But as soon as you start using `uv pip` you end up with all the drawbacks of `uv pip`, namely that whatever you pass after can affect earlier dependency resolutions too. Running `uv pip install dep-a` and then `... dep-b` isn't the same as `... dep-b` first and then `... dep-a`, or the same as `uv pip install dep-a dep-b` which coming from an environment that does proper dependency resolution and have workspaces, can be really confusing.

This is more of a pip issue than uv though, and `uv pip` is still preferable in my mind, but seems Python package management will forever be a mess, not even the bandaid uv can fix things like these.

[sieep]

Ive been away from python for awhile now, I was under the impression uv was somehow solving this dependency hell. Whats the benefit of using uv/pip together? Speed?

[embedding-shape]

As far as I can tell, `pip` by itself still doesn't even do something basic as resolving the dependency tree first, then download all the packages in parallel, as an basic example. The `uv pip` shim does.

And regardless if you use only uv, or pip-via-uv, or straight up pip, dependencies you install later steps over dependencies you installed earlier, and no tool so far seems to try to solve this, which leads me to conclude it's a Python problem, not a package manager problem.

[chuckadams]

`uv pip` is still uv, it's just uv's compatibility layer for pip.

[micik]

i found uv frustrating. i dont know what problem is it trying to solve. it's not a tool for managing virtualenvs, but it does them as well. i guess it's a tool for dependency management. the "uv tool" stuff. kinda weird. i gave it an honest try but i was working around it with shell functions all the time.

in the end i went back to good old virtualenvwrapper.sh and setting PYTHONPATH. full control over what goes into the venv and how. i guess people like writing new tools. i can understand that.

[embedding-shape]

Maybe I "entered" the Python ecosystem at a different time, but I never used virtualenvwrapper.sh nor sat PYTHONPATH manually ever. When I first came into contact with Python, I think doing `virtuelenv venv && source venv/bin/activate` was what was recommended to me at the time. Eventually I used `python -m venv` but always also with `pip` and a `requirements.txt`. I pretty much stuck with that until maybe 1 year ago I started playing around with `uv`, and for me, I just use `uv venv|pip|init|add` from uv, and nothing else from any other tools, and generally do pretty basic stuff.

Maybe for more complex projects and use cases it's harder, but it's a lot faster than just pip and pyproject.toml is a lot nicer to manage than `requirements.txt`, so that's two easy enough wins for me to move over.

[otterley]

uv solves many problems, but one textbook case is the problem of running some arbitrary Python-based command-line tool, where 1/you don’t have any Python interpreter installed, 2/your OS-provided Python interpreter isn’t compatible with the tool, or 3/you want to run single or multiple tools from any arbitrary folder where your data already is, as opposed to adapting your workflow to fit the virtualenv or running the risk that two tools have conflicting dependencies that would make the virtualenv not work well.

[Narushia]

Isn't what you're describing solved by `uv tool install`?

[otterley]

I’m describing the use cases that uv addresses.