[squeefers]

great, but we still cannot say anything beyond "what survives, survives". fitness is a central concept to natural selection and ultimately evolution, but it seems to bother nobody that its an empty concept, a tautology. its a nice observation but doesnt actually explain anything, and I expect science to explain the world.

[DonHopkins]

Saying "what survives, survives" may bother Creationists, the Discovery Institute, and Intelligent Design pushers, but not actual scientists who don't have an ideological agenda to discredit evolution as revenge because it discredits their religious dogma.

Saying "what survives, survives" is like saying physics explains motion as "things that move, move." That’s not what the theory actually claims; it’s a caricature.

Evolutionary theory explains mechanisms, not slogans. "Fitness" is not the explanation, it’s a measurable consequence of those mechanisms.

If you want teleology or ultimate purpose, science won’t give you that, so take some shrooms and ask the machine elves. But evolution absolutely explains how structured complexity accumulates without foresight, and it does so with predictive, testable models.

[lotsofpulp]

Science helps figure out “how”. If you want it to help you figure out “why” (beyond a probabilistic or mechanical model), you will be disappointed.

[squeefers]

> Science helps figure out “how"

im not asking the why, im asking the how

[DonHopkins]

Please inoculate yourself against believing and parroting anti-science Intelligent Design / Creationist talking points by understanding where they come from, and what they led to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Design

Intelligent Design is a religious ideology, not a scientific theory. The Discovery Institute is the evangelical advocacy organization that systematized and promoted it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_Institute

After Intelligent Design failed legally and scientifically, the Institute pivoted to the "Teach the Controversy" strategy -- not to advance new science, but to manufacture doubt about evolution in public education.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teach_the_Controversy

That approach -- revealingly effective -- became a template for later efforts to reintroduce religious ideology into secular institutions. Project 2025 represents the political continuation of that same strategy at a much larger scale: shifting from attacking a single scientific theory to reshaping education, governance, and public policy along explicitly religious lines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

These are not isolated phenomena. They are successive adaptations of the same agenda after earlier versions failed.

Exposing Discovery Institute Part 1: Casey Luskin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRxq1Vrf_Js

>Have you heard of the Discovery Institute? Have you fallen under the impression that they know what they are talking about, or can be considered an even remotely legitimate source of information?

>Well, you've come to right place. They aren't. They're a propaganda mill, and all of their content is full of lies.

>They hide behind a paper-thin roster of scientists who have deluded themselves into dishonestly preaching outside of their expertise, and they blatantly misrepresent any scientific research or scientists they are referring to. Constantly. Sometimes they even commit slander.

>That's what this video is about, and it is the first installment in a series where I will expose the fraudulent activity of all the major contributors at the Discovery Institute, one clown at a time.

>Part 1 addresses Casey Luskin, and it is centered around some very serious slander he committed against an esteemed anthropologist.

>But don't worry, I cover lots of other lies and stupidity that come out of his mouth as well.

>If you're a fan of the DI, do please find the courage to watch this rather than running to the comments section to yell at me.

>It's not all that long, and I promise that I make it extremely clear and undeniable that Casey is a liar. If you have a shred of honesty within you, you will quickly see that this is the case. Enjoy!

This dives into the "Junk DNA" cannard:

Exposing Discovery Institute Part 10: Casey Luskin Again (Because He's Such a Loser Fraud)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOnb0SZYZUI

[squeefers]

i think intelligent design is bunk.... was this a reflexive contrarian reply without even fully reading what youre arguing against?