[mstank]

As the models have progressively improved (able to handle more complex code bases, longer files, etc) I’ve started using this simple framework on repeat which seems to work pretty well at one shorting complex fixes or new features.

[Research] ask the agent to explain current functionality as a way to load the right files into context.

[Plan] ask the agent to brainstorm the best practices way to implement a new feature or refactor. Brainstorm seems to be a keyword that triggers a better questioning loop for the agent. Ask it to write a detailed implementation plan to an md file.

[clear] completely clear the context of the agent —- better results than just compacting the conversation.

[execute plan] ask the agent to review the specific plan again, sometimes it will ask additional questions which repeats the planning phase again. This loads only the plan into context and then have it implement the plan.

[review & test] clear the context again and ask it to review the plan to make sure everything was implemented. This is where I add any unit or integration tests if needed. Also run test suites, type checks, lint, etc.

With this loop I’ve often had it run for 20-30 minutes straight and end up with usable results. It’s become a game of context management and creating a solid testing feedback loop instead of trying to purely one-shot issues.

[jarjoura]

As of Dec 2025, Sonnet/Opus and GPTCodex are both trained and most good agent tools (ie. opencode, claude-code, codex) have prompts to fire off subagents during an exploration (use the word explore) and you should be able to Research without needing the extra steps of writing plans and resetting context. I'd save that expense unless you need some huge multi-step verifiable plan implemented.

The biggest gotcha I found is that these LLMs love to assume that code is C/Python but just in your favorite language of choice. Instead of considering that something should be written encapsulated into an object to maintain state, it will instead write 5 functions, passing the state as parameters between each function. It will also consistently ignore most of the code around it, even if it could benefit from reading it to know what specifically could be reused. So you end up with copy-pasta code, and unstructured copy-pasta at best.

The other gotcha is that claude usually ignores CLAUDE.md. So for me, I first prompt it to read it and then I prompt it to next explore. Then, with those two rules, it usually does a good job following my request to fix, or add a new feature, or whatever, all within a single context. These recent agents do a much better job of throwing away useless context.

I do think the older models and agents get better results when writing things to a plan document, but I've noticed recent opus and sonnet usually end up just writing the same code to the plan document anyway. That usually ends up confusing itself because it can't connect it to the code around the changes as easily.

[coldtea]

>Instead of considering that something should be written encapsulated into an object to maintain state, it will instead write 5 functions, passing the state as parameters between each function.

Sounds very functional, testable, and clean. Sign me up.

[the_sleaze_]

I know this is tongue in cheek, but writing functional code in an object oriented language, or even worse just taking a giant procedural trail of tears and spreading it across a few files like a roomba through a pile of dog doo is ... well.. a code smell at best.

I have a user prompt saved called clean code to make a pass through the changes and remove unused, DRY and refactor - literally the high points of uncle bob's Clean Code. It works shockingly well at taking AI code and making it somewhat maintainable.

[KptMarchewa]

>I know this is tongue in cheek, but writing functional code in an object oriented language, or even worse just taking a giant procedural trail of tears and spreading it across a few files like a roomba through a pile of dog doo is ... well.. a code smell at best.

After forcing myself over years to apply various OOP principles using multiple languages, I believe OOP has truly been the worst thing to happen to me personally as engineer. Now, I believe what you actually see is just an "aesthetics" issue, moreover it's purely learned aesthetics.

[zx8080]

Does its output follow the "no comments needed" principle of the uncle Bob?

[coldtea]

Not so much tongue in cheek, but a little on the light side, sure.

I'd argue writing functional code in C++ (which is multi-paradigm anyway), or Java, or Typescript is fine!

[boredtofears]

Care to share the prompt? Sounds useful!

[the_sleaze_]

Sure. Please improve it and come back around to let me know.

https://gist.github.com/prostko/5cf33aba05680b722017fdc0937f...

[nextaccountic]

> As of Dec 2025, Sonnet/Opus and GPTCodex are both trained and most good agent tools (ie. opencode, claude-code, codex) have prompts to fire off subagents during an exploration (use the word explore) and you should be able to Research without needing the extra steps of writing plans and resetting context. I'd save that expense unless you need some huge multi-step verifiable plan implemented.

Does the UI shows clearly what portion was done by a subagent?

[xnorswap]

Yes it will, this is almost verbatim (redacted product) claude-code output from my current session:

   ● I'll explore the codebase to understand the current <redacted> architecture, testing patterns, and integration points. This will help me formulate effective strategies for reducing QA burden.

   ● 3 Explore agents finished (ctrl+o to expand)
      ├─ Explore <redacted> architecture · 57 tool uses · 60.0k tokens
      │  ⎿  Done
      ├─ Explore current testing approach · 29 tool uses · 51.7k tokens
      │  ⎿  Done
      └─ Explore API integration patterns · 44 tool uses · 71.7k tokens
         ⎿  Done

During agent execution, it also shows what each sub-agent is up to. In ctrl+o mode it'll show the prompts it passed to each sub-agent.

[master_crab]

The UI (terminal) in Claude code will tell you if it has launched a subagent to research a particular file or problem. But it will not be highlighted for you, simply displayed in its record of prompts and actions.

[mstank]

If you use the vscode extension you can click to view the sub-agent prompts and see all tool calls.

[je42]

If claude ignores your claude.md you can force it to read via settings to cat it every session start for example.

[dboreham]

AI can be an FP absolutist too.

[indigodaddy]

Interesting, for me they almost always assume/write TS.

[prmph]

Nothing will really work when the models fail at the most basic of reasoning challenges.

I've had models do the complete opposite of what I've put in the plan and guidelines. I've had them go re-read the exact sentences, and still see them come to the opposite conclusion, and my instructions are nothing complex at all.

I used to think one could build a workflow and process around LLMs that extract good value from them consistently, but I'm now not so sure.

I notice that sometimes the model will be in a good state, and do a long chain of edits of good quality. The problem is, it's still a crap-shoot how to get them into a good state.

[hu3]

Check context size.

LLMs become increasingly error-prone as their memory is fills up. Just like humans.

In VSCode Copilot you can keep track of how many tokens the LLM is dealing with in realtime with "Chat Debug".

When it reaches 90k tokens I should expect degraded intelligence and brace for a possible forced sumarization.

Sometimes I just stop LLMs and continue the work in a new session.

[mstank]

In my experience this was an issue 6-8 months ago. Ever since Sonnet 4 I haven’t had any issues with instruction following.

Biggest step-change has been being able to one-shot file refactors (using the planning framework I mentioned above). 6 months ago refactoring was a very delicate dance and now it feels like it’s pretty much streamlined.

[ewoodrich]

I recently ran into two baffling, what felt like GPT 3.5 era completely backwards misinterpretations of an unambiguous sentence once each in Codex and CC/Sonnet a few days apart in completely different scenarios (both very early in the context window). And to be fair, they were notable partially as an "exception that proves the rule" where it was surprising to see but OP's example can definitely still happen in my experience.

I was prepared to go back to my original message and spot an obvious-in-hindsight grey area/phrasing issue on my part as the root cause but there was nothing in the request itself that was unclear or problematic, nor was it buried deep within a laundry list of individual requests in a single message. Of course, the CLI agents did all sorts of scanning through the codebase/self debate/etc in between the request and the first code output. I'm used to how modern models/agents get tripped up by now so this was an unusually clear cut failure to encounter from the latest large commercial reasoning models.

In both instances, literally just restating the exact same request with "No, the request was: [original wording]" was all it took to steer them back and didn't become a concerning pattern. But with the unpredictability of how the CLI agents decide to traverse a repo and ingest large amounts of distracting code/docs it seems much too over confident to believe that random, bizarre LLM "reasoning" failures won't still occur from time to time in regular usage even as models improve given their inherent limitations.

(If I were bending over backwards to be charitable/anthropomorphize, it would be the human failure mode of "I understood exactly what I was asked for and what I needed to do, but then somehow did the exact opposite, haha oops brain fart!" but personally I'm not willing to extend that much forgiveness/tolerance to a failure from a commercial tool I pay for...)

[PeterFBell]

It's complicated. Firstly, don't love that this happens. But the fact you're not willing to provide tolerance to a commercial tool that costs maybe a few hundred bucks a month but are willing to do so for a human who probably costs thousands of bucks a month is revealing of a double standard we're all navigating.

Its like the fallout when a waymo kills a "beloved neighborhood cat". I'm not against cats, and I'm deeply saddened at the loss of any life, but if it's true that (comparable) mile for mile, waymos reduce deaths and injuries, that is a good thing - even if they don't reduce them to zero.

And to be clear, I often feel the same way - but I am wondering why and whether it's appropriate!

[prmph]

For me I was just pointing out some interesting and noteworthy failure modes.

And it matters. If the models struggle sometimes with basic instruction following, they're can quite possibly make insidious mistakes in large complex tasks that you might no have the wherewithal or time to review.

The thing about good abstractions is that you should be able to trust in a composable way. The simpler or more low-level the building blocks, the more reliable you should expect them to be. In LLMs you can't really make this assumption.

[ewoodrich]

I mean, we typically architect systems depending on humans around an assumption of human fallibility. But when it comes to automation, randomly still doing the exact opposite even if somewhat rare is problematic and limits where and at what scale it can be safely deployed without needing ongoing human supervision.

For a coding tool it’s not as problematic as hopefully you vet the output to some degree but it still means I have don’t feel comfortable using them using them as expansively (like the mythical personal assistant doing my banking and replying to emails, etc) as they might otherwise be used with more predictable failure modes.

I’m perfectly comfortable with Waymo on the other hand, but that would probably change if I knew they were driven by even the newest and fanciest LLMs as [toddler identified | action: avoid toddler] -> turns towards toddler is a fundamentally different sort of problem.

[alienbaby]

I'm curious in what kinda if situations you are seeing the model the do opposite of your intention consistently where the instructions were not complex. Do you have any examples?

[avereveard]

Mostly gemini 3 pro when I ask to investigate a bug and provide fixing options (i do this mostly so i can see when the model loaded the right context for large tasks) gemini immediately starts fixing things and I just cant trust it

Codex and claude give a nice report and if I see they're not considering this or that I can tell em.

[saxenaabhi]

fyi that happened to me with codex.

but, why is it a big issue? if it does something bad, just reset the worktree and try again with a different model/agent? They are dirt cheap at 20/m and I have 4 subscription(claude, codex, cursor, zed).

[avereveard]

Same I have multiple subscription and layer them. I use haiku to plan and send queue of task to codex and gemini whose command line can be scripted

The issue to me is that I have no idea of what the code looks like and have to have a reliable first layer model that can summarize current codebase state so I can decide whether the next mutation moves the project forward or reduces technical debt. I can delegate much more that way, while gemini "do first" approach tend to result in many dead ends that I have to unravel.

[prmph]

The issue is that if it's struggling sometimes with basic instruction following, it's likely to be making insidious mistakes in large complex tasks that you might no have the wherewithal or time to review.

The thing about good abstractions is that you should be able to trust in a composable way. The simpler or more low-level the building blocks, the more reliable you should expect them to be. In LLMs you can't really make this assumption.

[saxenaabhi]

I'm not sure you can make that assumption even when a human wrote that code. LLMs are competing with humans not with some abstraction.

> The issue is that if it's struggling sometimes with basic instruction following, it's likely to be making insidious mistakes in large complex tasks that you might no have the wherewithal or time to review.

Yes, that's why we review all code even when written by humans.

[godzillafarts]

This is effectively what I'm doing, inspired by HumanLayer's Advanced Context Engineering guidelines: https://github.com/humanlayer/advanced-context-engineering-f...

We've taken those prompts, tweaked them to be more relevant to us and our stack, and have pulled them in as custom commands that can be executed in Claude Code, i.e. `/research_codebase`, `/create_plan`, and `/implement_plan`.

It's working exceptionally well for me, it helps that I'm very meticulous about reviewing the output and correcting it during the research and planning phase. Aside from a few use cases with mixed results, it hasn't really taken off throughout our team unfortunately.

[asim]

I don't do any of that. I find with GitHub copilot and Claude sonnet 4.5 if I'm clear enough about the what and where it'll sort things out pretty well, and then there's only reiteration of code styling or reuse of functionality. At that point it has enough context to keep going. The only time I might clear that whole thing is if I'm working on an entirely new feature where the context is too large and it gets stuck in summarising the history. Otherwise it's good. But this in codespaces. I find the Tasks feature much harder. Almost a write-off when trying to do something big. Twice I've had it go off on some strange tangent and build the most absurd thing. You really need to keep your eyes on it.

[hu3]

Yeah I found that for daily work, current models like Sonnet/Opus 4.5, Gemini 3.0 Pro (and even Flash) work really well without planning as long as I divide and conquer larger tasks into smaller ones. Just like I would do if I was programming myself.

For planning large tasks like "setup playwright tests in this project with some demo tests" I spend some time chatting with Gemini 3 or Opus 4.5 to figure out the most idiomatic easy-wins and possible pitfalls. Like: separate database for playwright tests. Separate users in playwright tests. Skipping login flow for most tests. And so on.

I suspect that devs who use a formal-plan-first approach tend to tackle larger tasks and even vibe code large features at a time.

[mbreese]

I’ve had some luck with giving the LLM an overview of what I want the final version to do, but then asking it to perform smaller chunks. This is how I’d approach it myself — I know where I’m trying to go, and will implement smaller chunks at a time. I’ll also sometimes ask it to skip certain functionality - leaving a placeholder and saying we’ll get back to it later.

[hyperadvanced]

Same. I find that if I can piecemeal explain the desired functionality and work as I would pairing with another engineer that it’s totally possible to go from “make me a simple wheel with spokes” to “okay now let’s add a better frame and brakes” with relatively little planning, other than what I’d already do when researching the codebase to implement a new feature

[asim]

It's quite interesting because it makes me wonder how we make it efficient and predictable. The human language is just too verbose. There must be some DSL, some more refined way to get to the output we need. I don't know whether it means you actually just need to provide examples or something else. But you know code is very binary, do this do that. LLMs are really just too verbose even in this format right now. That higher layer really needs a language. I mean I get it. It's understanding human language and converting it to code. Very clever. But I think we can do better.

[AlexB138]

This is essentially my exact workflow. I also keep the plan markdown files around in the repo to refer agents back to when adding new features. I have found it to be a really effective loop, and a great way to reprime context when returning to features.

[redrove]

I use an Obsidian MCP to essentially keep a database of plans, or versions sometimes that I can just fire off.

[mstank]

Why eat up the context with an MCP when a ./docs/plans folder does the same?

[redrove]

Flexibility and deeper Obsidian integration.

[mstank]

Exactly this. I clear the old plans every few weeks.

For really big features or plans I’ll ask the agent to create linear issue tickets to track progress for each phase over multiple sessions. Only MCP I have loaded is usually linear but looking for a good way to transition it to a skill.

[JamesSwift]

In general anything with an API is simply saying "find the auth token at ~/.config/foo.json". It mostly knows the rest endpoints and can figure out the rest

[doublerebel]

I like Linearis as a CLI/skill interface to Linear, its help and json output are built well for use with Agents.

[AlexB138]

Ah, that's a great idea. I've just been having the agent add a Progress section to the plan files and checking things off as we work.

[zingar]

I’m uneasy having an agent implement several pages of plan and then writing tests and results only at the and of all that. It feels like getting a CS student to write and follow a plan to do something they haven’t worked on before.

It’ll report, “Numbers changed in step 6a therefore it worked” [forgetting the pivotal role of step 2 which failed and as a result the agent should have taken step 6b, not 6a].

Or “there is conclusive evidence that X is present and therefore we were successful” [X is discussed in the plan as the reason why action is NEEDED, not as success criteria].

I _think _ that what is going wrong is context overload and my remedy is to have the agent update every step of the plan with results immediately after action and before moving on to action on the next step.

When things seem off I can then clear context and have the agent review results step by step to debug its own work: “review step 2 of the results. Are the stated results confident with final conclusions? Quote lines from the results verbatim as evidence.”

[layer8]

This is a bit like agile versus waterfall.

[zingar]

100%, the reason I thought of this is constantly telling developers to break their work down into smaller pieces so that they can focus and the customer sees value sooner.

[dboreham]

One of the things I like about LLM coding is that I don't need to become a psychologist in order to persuade other humans to approach their work in an manner I'd prefer.

[dfsegoat]

Highly recommend using agent based hooks for things like `[review & test]`.

At a basic level, they work akin to git-hooks, but they fire up a whole new context whenever certain events trigger (E.g. another agent finishes implementing changes) - and that hook instance is independent of the implementation context (which is great, as for the review case it is a semi-independent reviewer).

[zeroCalories]

I agree this can work okay, but once I find myself doing this much handholding I would prefer to drive the process myself. Coordinating 4 agents and guiding them along really makes you appreciate the mythical-man-month on the scale of hours.