[untech]

I am confused about the situation. Can someone with more context please explain? Is HomeDepot forcing their own workers off the parking lot? Or are there some other workers there? What do they do on a parking lot? Are they in cars or on foot? Why do they stay on the parking lot the whole day, if they are not HomeDepot employees?

[jchw]

The operative word is "day laborers". These are people who work on a day-to-day basis. In America at least, there is a large contingent of people who are informal day laborers, especially Hispanic immigrants apparently, although I'm not sure if that's really true or just a stereotype, and a lot of them hang out or around at home improvement stores, waiting to be hired for various handyman-type jobs.

It is frequently referenced in American media, like South Park (in "D-Yikes") and Mike Judge's Beavis and Butthead (in "The Day Butt-Head Went Too Far"). And well, probably some other media that isn't adult cartoons, but for some reason that was what first immediately came to mind.

I was aware of the stereotype of Hispanic day laborers hanging out in Home Depot parking lots for a long time, but it was interesting to see the degree to which it seems to be true in California, where I often saw fairly large groups of people that I believed to be day laborers in the parking lot. I'm sure there are also day laborers at home improvement stores in the Midwest too, but I don't really pay that much attention, so I haven't noticed it much.

edit: I see I took too long to reply and now am the sixth or so person to point this out, sorry. Race condition.

[mc32]

Japan too has a lot of day laborers too -single men usually without a family support structure or they left their families for reasons. In Japan the day laborers are almost exclusively Japanese as they don't tolerate illegal immigration much.

[esseph]

> as they don't tolerate illegal immigration much

They don't really tolerate legal immigration, or legal immigrants, either.

[like_any_other]

> I'm not sure if that's really true or just a stereotype

Stereotype Accuracy is One of the Largest and Most Replicable Effects in All of Social Psychology - https://spsp.org/news-center/character-context-blog/stereoty...

In fact, quite shockingly to many, that prevailing twofold sentiment, which sees stereotypical thinking as faulty cognition and stereotypes themselves as patently inaccurate, is itself wrong on both counts. - https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/2018...

Most stereotypes that have been studied have been shown to be approximately correct. Usually, stereotype accuracy correlations exceed .50, making them some of the largest relationships ever found in social psychology. - https://www.cspicenter.com/p/the-accuracy-of-stereotypes-dat...

[jchw]

It's not that I don't believe it is likely, it's more like I don't like spreading an unqualified stereotype that I haven't actually validated in any way other than personal anecdotes. It's not like it's a terribly harmful stereotype (at least, I don't have anything against day laborers at all) but just as a matter of good hygiene I believe it's good to hedge a bit when you're spreading information that is essentially folklore. (In this case the point was to spread the folklore part, so I didn't feel it necessary to go and try to validate it with data myself.)

[xracy]

There is a far cry between "Stereotypes are generally accurate" and "being able to make a specific measured claim on the basis of a stereotype."

You also don't actively prove this claim, which means that we may know that it's "more likely to be true than not" based on your shared information, but could still absolutely be false.

Which leads me to my question, "Why would you make a comment about the correctness of stereotypes, rather than just finding actual data about the stereotype in question?"

[like_any_other]

Because the phrasing "true OR a stereotype" implied the concepts are opposed, when they are anything but.

[xracy]

You have not disproved that the concepts are opposed in this instance. Which matters much more than whether or not "stereotypes might generally be true." Like, at best stereotypes are a distraction for the actual data we'd like to have discussions about.

[like_any_other]

> You have not disproved that the concepts are opposed in this instance.

Nor did I aim to. I only wanted to dispel the mistaken belief that stereotypes are mostly false in general. That you think I should have instead addressed some other point that in your opinion matter more is irrelevant - you are free to address it yourself.

[constantius]

Very interesting papers. However, the last link:

> Center for the Study of Partisanship and Ideology

> some stereotypes are malevolent and destructive:

> ...

> Jews as grasping hook-nosed Nazis perpetrating genocide on innocent Palestinian babies.

Very underhanded way to paint the widely held accusations of genocide in Gaza as antisemitic...

Looking into it further: the CSPI is a right wing think-tank headed by Richard Hanania (from the website's bio, a thinker on the Right interested in culture wars, who has published vile stuff on Palestine, and has the infantile authoritarian viewpoints on politics that have unfortunately become synonymous with the "new right"). So take some salt with you if you're visiting that website...

[wilsonnb3]

See season 7, episode 4 (“Sex Ed”) of The Office for a non-cartoon media reference :)

[wkandek]

The workers do not work for HomeDepot. They come to the Home Deport parking lot ready to offer their services. People unrelated to HomeDepot will come to the parking lot and offer temporary work, landscaping, construction, etc.

[SoftTalker]

They are "day laborers." People who hang around there hoping to find work helping with your home repairs, painting, appliance installation, landscaping, or other projects etc.

[untech]

Huh, and that works? Sounds a bit… old-fashioned? I’d think people are looking for these services online or in some gig work app. Interesting. Sounds unpleasant both for workers that have to hang around on the street, and customers that are approached (at least that’s how I imagine it) by people offering services even when they don’t need it. (Or do customers approach workers themselves?) From the outside, sounds weird. I wonder what in the US caused it.

[phil21]

At least at the Home Depot near me, the day laborers sit near the parking lot exits on the boulevard.

I go to Home Depot more than is reasonable, and I’ve never been approached by them. You typically would need to solicit them yourself. In general I find them to be respectful and pleasant - I imagine otherwise they would get customer complaints and Home Depot would have them trespassed immediately.

From others experiences I’ve talked to, they usually form “crews” with one main “crew chief” guy who speaks English you negotiate a rate and number of workers you need, and any specific skills like concrete, framing, etc. beyond simple labor. You generally are expected to provide any tools needed to complete the job beyond what fits in a standard tool belt.

[toast0]

> Huh, and that works? Sounds a bit… old-fashioned? I’d think people are looking for these services online or in some gig work app.

You need to go to the home improvement store to get materials for your job anyway, you can also pick up some people to help, too.

Why fuss on an app trying to figure out who to hire, when you can head over, say 'hey, who knows how to dig a foundation' or 'who can help me hang a door' or whatever your job is. Maybe find the worker first and they can help you shop for the stuff you need.

Drive them back to the lot at the end of the job.

[weberer]

>I’d think people are looking for these services online or in some gig work app.

Then you'd need to prove your identity and pay taxes on what you earn. This is for illegal immigrants working under the table.

[SoftTalker]

It's also only in some areas. None of the big home improvement centers where I live have anyone hanging around looking for work.

[esseph]

I've seen it in Atlanta, GA, Phoenix, AZ, Kansas City, MO, Anchorage, AK, and Chicago, IL.

[pandaman]

They are mostly hired by the contractors who advertise their services online and through aps, who go to HD several times a day anyways. The final customer deals with the contractors, not with the day laborers.

[esseph]

Small concrete / roofing company / construction company might need some more hands for a day or two for a project.

They go in to grab materials, leave with materials and some potentially new workers. If it works out (and it often does) they may use them for other projects, too.

Source: My father in law was a carpenter for about 40 years

[JKCalhoun]

It's very old-fashioned. Like Grapes of Wrath old-fashioned.

[lalaland1125]

> wonder what in the US caused it

Lots of illegal immigrants desperate for work

[bloudermilk]

Day laborers are an independent labor force who do construction, landscaping, and other manual work for a negotiated cash rate. In Los Angeles they hang out in public spaces in groups, often near hardware stores, to make themselves easy to find and hire.

[phainopepla2]

Day laborers at Home Depot are generally undocumented immigrants who hang around in the parking lot hoping to get hired for quick handyman type jobs. This is why they've been a target for ICE raids