[ThrowawayR2]

If you're suggesting that humans can't be that terrible, I recommend that you do not open this link (It is a link to a BBC article but I feel compelled to give a trigger warning since it is genuinely that disturbing): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45942652 History is rife with similar examples; those who still believe there is any inherent goodness in human nature should acquaint themselves with them.

Golding is right on the money. Humans are merely animals and will behave no better than animals given the right circumstances.

[MangoToupe]

The above poster isn't claiming humans can't act poorly, just that lord of the flies is a bad depiction of how humans come to act that way.

[like_any_other]

> suggesting that humans can't be that terrible

No, he's suggesting that children usually aren't that terrible. That a real scenario of ~50 unsupervised children (or adults), 99 out of 100 times, wouldn't play out that way. That something is possible does not mean it is the norm, and only those that can't grasp numbers (such as English majors) think otherwise. With such significant caveats, can one really say that the novel is about human nature in general?

[ThrowawayR2]

You are pulling equally fictitious numbers out of your hat to defend your comfortable worldview, without even the benefit of extensive exposure to children as a schoolmaster, so how is your argument on any better level than Golding's?

[like_any_other]

> You are pulling equally fictitious numbers out of your hat

Am I? Ignoring the natural experiment the Guardian article retells, how often do self-supervised human societies descend into savagery or war among themselves? How often when they are smaller than 100 members (Lord of Flies is about a group of 50)?

Even without the <100 member criterion, only the most violent outliers of human societies reach a 1% yearly violent death rate [1]. So my "fictitious numbers out of my hat to defend my comfortable worldview" are actually the worst humanity is capable of (the average for the 20th century, with all the world wars, was 0.06%). Yet I'm not getting a Nobel prize despite being closer to the truth. I guess that's why he got it in literature, not a scientific field.

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/ethnographic-and-archaeological-e...

[notahacker]

Scroll down that page

Violent death rate estimates of up to 56% in selected tribal or clan societies, which is a lot more deadly than Jack's attempt to mould the choirboys into a hunting clan in the story...